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Old 07-20-2010, 10:16 AM   #21
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Seems to me, that I read somewhere the prez of the us, is paid $500,000 for running the country.
I dont know if he is paid for overtime.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:22 AM   #22
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Just one more thread to put on ignore.
Do you ever post anything else?
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:51 AM   #23
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I think this is just plain wrong headed. Consumer choice is a check on quality of goods but it is not a check on practices that undermine our society - certainly not more of a check than the vote. Choice only comes into play when something a company does gets blasted into the stratosphere of public consciousness -- a la BP. Even then, lots of pundits/pols rush to their side to protect them from a "backlash." In fact, the only way I can see that we could reverse the private sector top level pay gap is through Government policy - I'm not advocating that, by the way, but the market will not do it no matter how many people find the practices reprehensible. By contrast, getting rid of whole groups of politicians you don't like is child's play.
I'm not sure I follow your argument; consumer choice extends from the cash register all the way back to the boardroom. If you believe their CEO is making too much money, buy somewhere else. Send a letter to the Company Board of Directors and tell them you can't support their company in good conscience because you believe their executive compensation is out of whack. You are going to make a statement and take your business elsewhere. If they get 100,000 letters from former customers, they will be forced to take action because of the resultant loss of revenue, and the impact on their shareholder equity; the responsibility of the Board.

Where do voters get input in what public sector employees are paid? We have no say in what these folks make; as a taxpayer I can't vote on whether $100K annually is fair wage for the municipal garbageman who dropped out of high school and that $40K is a fair wage for a schoolteacher with a masters degree, or whether they deserve merit increases or an annual COLA.
Where do I get to vote on my tax dollars going to pay the the State College football coach $1.2 million?

We are being fleeced by a system that is all checks and no balances.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:11 AM   #24
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Where do I get to vote on my tax dollars going to pay the the State College football coach $1.2 million?
Football coaches are paid by the booster clubs, run by wealthy alums..........
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:18 AM   #25
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I remember a few years back, the local news in my area tried to get people all worked-up about the compensation of our city officials. It lasted a few days, maybe a week, and then went away. The main point was that the "salary" didn't include bonuses, which were huge, so the public was largely unaware of the true compensation of their elected officials.

About the same time, a new website was advertised that publishes the salary of all public employees in the state (interesting that I just posted this link in another thread). I don't think it includes bonuses either.

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Old 07-20-2010, 11:34 AM   #26
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Football coaches are paid by the booster clubs, run by wealthy alums..........
Here are the salaries of all the major conference football coaches.
How many of these are being paid with our tax dollars?

Pac-10 football coaching salaries
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:54 AM   #27
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In fact, the only way I can see that we could reverse the private sector top level pay gap is through Government policy - I'm not advocating that, by the way, but the market will not do it no matter how many people find the practices reprehensible. By contrast, getting rid of whole groups of politicians you don't like is child's play.
Much of the problem is the incestuous nature of so many corporate board rooms. Many times, you have Company A executives sitting on Company B's board of directors, and the Company B execs are on A's board. So it's easy for them to rubber stamp outrageous compensation packages as a quid pro quo.

Getting rid of entrenched groups of politicians is easy? Have you seen the rate at which incumbents in Congress are re-elected? Or how much special interest money flows to them?
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:55 AM   #28
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The main point was that the "salary" didn't include bonuses, which were huge, so the public was largely unaware of the true compensation of their elected officials.
Did it include the value of benefits?
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:02 PM   #29
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Here are the salaries of all the major conference football coaches.
How many of these are being paid with our tax dollars?

Pac-10 football coaching salaries
Not arguing, just tellin' ya how they are paid. The university kicks in some of that, but a LOT of it comes from athletic boosters (rich alums) at the university.............
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:03 PM   #30
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Did it include the value of benefits?
I don't remember if the news report did or not (it was a couple of years ago). The website I referred to currently states:
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...Most databases reflect actual employee gross earnings/wages subject to Medicare taxes for the most recent tax year, as provided by each governmental agency...
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:05 PM   #31
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Where do voters get input in what public sector employees are paid? We have no say in what these folks make; as a taxpayer I can't vote on whether $100K annually is fair wage for the municipal garbageman who dropped out of high school and that $40K is a fair wage for a schoolteacher with a masters degree, or whether they deserve merit increases or an annual COLA. Where do I get to vote on my tax dollars going to pay the the State College football coach $1.2 million?
You make it sound like voters don't elect the people who make the hiring and salary decisions. But they do.

If your ballot has no candidate who is standing on a platform of reducing the salaries of municipal employees, that would appear to be a prime opportunity to stand yourself - that's what makes democracy so cool. Or, campaign for candidates who support such policies in the primaries, caucuses, and other candidate selection meetings of the party of your choice.

I suspect that overall, you'd have more chance of halving the salary of the manager of a city with 40,000 souls and perhaps 20,000 voters, than you would of halving the pay of the CEO of a company with 40,000 employees and 20,000 shareholders.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:31 PM   #32
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You make it sound like voters don't elect the people who make the hiring and salary decisions. But they do.
Right. Sounds great, but in the real world it's the fox guarding the henhouse.

I can choose not to buy from a company, but I can't choose who I want to deal with regard to non-elected positions within the public sector. Try telling the city or county that you have contracted with a lower-cost provider for your share of road maintenance or education, for example; so you won't be supporting them with your tax dollars anymore.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:38 PM   #33
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Right. Sounds great, but in the real world it's the fox guarding the henhouse.
I'm not saying it's easy. But how many people would it take in a 20,000 voter community to get the pols scared enough that they would do at least something about it? I'm guessing that you'd never be able to organise a consumer boycott that would have the same effect. C'mon, reducing overpaid government workers' salaries, should be a slam dunk, who's going to vote against that? (Well, apart from the government workers , but presumably they're in a minority, or their salaries would be coming from their own taxes.)
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:41 PM   #34
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Not arguing, just tellin' ya how they are paid. The university kicks in some of that, but a LOT of it comes from athletic boosters (rich alums) at the university.............
Thesee are (nearly) all State salaries- not counting what they get from Alums, Corporate sponsors, and the Media as perks, speaking fees, and other deals to boost their woefully inadequate state salaries.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:54 PM   #35
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Not a big collegiate sports fan in any sense of the word here, and not to justify what they make, but Division I college football coaches have to have one of the most stressful jobs (it hurts my stomach watching their faces during a bowl game, not to mention all the parties who weigh in on their performance) and are working all the time and are in charge of a revenue-producing function for their schools. I sort of take them out of my usual salary consideration outrage because of that

An American relative of DH's went to work for a European company's US subsidiary as president; his salary wasn't anything special, maybe 250K, but it was more than his European equivalents, including the corp. CEO, and caused a lot of hard feelings.

It's also hard to see the high municipal salaries in the OP when most municipalities are having their workers take unpaid furlough days; imho those days should be determined by salary--the more you make, the more days off you have to take.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:02 PM   #36
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Not a big collegiate sports fan in any sense of the word here, and not to justify what they make, but Division I college football coaches have to have one of the most stressful jobs (it hurts my stomach watching their faces during a bowl game, not to mention all the parties who weigh in on their performance) and are working all the time and are in charge of a revenue-producing function for their schools. I sort of take them out of my usual salary consideration outrage because of that
And maybe it's a sign that society has warped priorities, but the bottom line is that Mack Brown is helping to generate gazillions of dollars for Longhorns Incorporated while your average chemistry professor isn't, and that helps dictate compensation.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #37
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Yep, that's exactly the "revenue-producing function" I was referring to.

No TV contracts for chemistry teams.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #38
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Don....

It sounds like you're justifying the salaries of the Bell, Calif officials by saying some CEO's are outrageously paid too. Is that what you actually mean?
No absolutely not. I would have been content if this thread simply groused about Bell as an example of corruption or government run amok -- it appears to be so. I was reacting to this:
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The pundits who decry private sector bonus plans, and rail about egregious executive compensation? Can't wait to hear them try to defend this bit of chicanery...
. Bell is not representative of government salaries -- far from it. And to compare an outlier like this to the situation with CEO salaries, well...enough said above.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:30 PM   #39
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An American relative of DH's went to work for a European company's US subsidiary as president; his salary wasn't anything special, maybe 250K, but it was more than his European equivalents, including the corp. CEO, and caused a lot of hard feelings.
I read somewhere that when Daimler merged with Chrysler, there were senior German managers coming to the US and finding that people three levels below them in the hierarchy were making more money.

On the other hand, the minimum wage in most Western European countries is higher than in the US. Not something you can raise a family on by yourself, but in France a couple with two fulltime minimum wage earners and a couple of kids will not be living in poverty - and they will have the same health coverage as everybody else.
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:59 PM   #40
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Don....

It sounds like you're justifying the salaries of the Bell, Calif officials by saying some CEO's are outrageously paid too. Is that what you actually mean?
I do not think that he's justifying the exorbitant pay of executives in either sectors. He's trying to say that do not just pick on the public sector.
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