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Old 07-20-2010, 07:04 PM   #41
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Politics. Politics. POLITICS! politicspoliticspoliticspoliticspoliticspolitics!

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Old 07-20-2010, 10:58 PM   #42
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Looks like the weasels are being pursued by the angry mob with pitchforks...

City of Bell Postpones Investigation of High Salaries | NBC Los Angeles
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:42 AM   #43
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Looks like the weasels are being pursued by the angry mob with pitchforks...

City of Bell Postpones Investigation of High Salaries | NBC Los Angeles
Apparently, they think the salary is justifiable since they were able to rescue the city from near bankruptcy.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:47 AM   #44
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I do not think that he's justifying the exorbitant pay of executives in either sectors. He's trying to say that do not just pick on the public sector.
Agreed that private sector CEO pay is often ridiculous, but as a consumer of goods offered by private companies, I have choice. As a taxpayer funding public salaries, I do not. I sometimes have market-based choices to deal with excessive private sector executive pay that I don't have with public sector pay.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:28 PM   #45
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Agreed that private sector CEO pay is often ridiculous, but as a consumer of goods offered by private companies, I have choice. As a taxpayer funding public salaries, I do not. I sometimes have market-based choices to deal with excessive private sector executive pay that I don't have with public sector pay.
You have roughly the same chance of changing the CEO's salary by not buying company X's goods and services, as you do of changing the public employee's by voting. Small in either case, but in both cases it's plausible to imagine a campaign being organised.

Indeed, I think there's a very high likelihood that the voters of Bell will get together and organise just such an operation, thus disproving your position (except that you probably don't live in that town).

It will be interesting to see how the new UK government gets to grips with public sector pay. Before the recent election, the Conservatives promised that anyone in the public sector earning more than the Prime Minister ($220K or so) would need to have that signed off by the national Finance minister. It turns out that there's a lot of those people...
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:48 PM   #46
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If I don't like private sector executive pay, I can choose not to do business with companies that award it. I have no such choice with my tax dollars, which is why I find it more objectionable in the public sector.
I think this comparison is unfair - effect of you not doing business with a company which pays humongous CEO pay is about the same as the effect of your vote during election of an official into public office...

Update: reading down the thread looks like BigNick pointed out the same thing.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:06 PM   #47
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I think this comparison is unfair - effect of you not doing business with a company which pays humongous CEO pay is about the same as the effect of your vote during election of an official into public office...
No sale.

If I decide not to do business with a private enterprise because their executive pay is excessive, there is a 0% chance they get my money. No "majority of voters" can force me to buy their products or services.

If I *prefer* not to elect officials who provide public sector compensation we can't afford, there's still a good chance (50% + 1) of the voters will overrule me and require me to pay up for it anyway.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:00 PM   #48
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No sale.

If I decide not to do business with a private enterprise because their executive pay is excessive, there is a 0% chance they get my money. No "majority of voters" can force me to buy their products or services.

If I *prefer* not to elect officials who provide public sector compensation we can't afford, there's still a good chance (50% + 1) of the voters will overrule me and require me to pay up for it anyway.
You could easily reverse your arguments just as well.

In first case, majority of people doing business with the company "overrule" you and the CEO still gets the big salary.

In the second case, there is 0% chance the official gets your vote.

Point is, whatever you do, you have same minuscule chances of affecting the outcome you are trying to "fight" in the first place.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:37 PM   #49
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You could easily reverse your arguments just as well.

In first case, majority of people doing business with the company "overrule" you and the CEO still gets the big salary.

In the second case, there is 0% chance the official gets your vote.

Point is, whatever you do, you have same minuscule chances of affecting the outcome you are trying to "fight" in the first place.
I think you are missing Ziggy's point... or just want to argue... he is not saying he IS affecting the CEO salary with what he does... he is saying he has a choice to buy or not buy from a private enterprise...

If you live in a taxing district, you do NOT have this choice. If they pay way to much for someone... it is out of Ziggy's pocket.. (or yours or mine)...

In the first case, no money out of pocket, in the second, money is out...


As an example... some people in our area wanted us to be part of a community college... so they tried to get the voters to elect to be part of the tax base... it got voted down big time... that did not stop them.. they did all the legal things to bring it to a vote on a Saturday with only this being on the ballot... and the polling places were not the normal places... (I voted in someone garage)... this time, it was passed.. with less than 5% of the people voting... (it barely passed at that)...

Now, we are stuck with paying taxes to this taxing district FOREVER... and the taxes keep going up because they are getting less funding from the state and don't want to raise tuition.... so even a 50% plus 1 is not what is needed.... having a sneeky election that few people know about in a location that nobody knows can do it also... all legal I might add...
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:28 PM   #50
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Looks like the good folks of Bell are making progress:

High-paid CA council members say they'll slash pay - Yahoo! News

Amazing what happens to rats when you shine the light on them.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:13 PM   #51
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Looks like the good folks of Bell are making progress:

High-paid CA council members say they'll slash pay - Yahoo! News

Amazing what happens to rats when you shine the light on them.
They quickly flee for safety to another hiding place away from the spotlight.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:08 PM   #52
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I think you are missing Ziggy's point... or just want to argue... he is not saying he IS affecting the CEO salary with what he does... he is saying he has a choice to buy or not buy from a private enterprise...

If you live in a taxing district, you do NOT have this choice. If they pay way to much for someone... it is out of Ziggy's pocket.. (or yours or mine)...
You absolutely have a choice when it comes it high taxes. People leaving California make that choice all the time.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:33 PM   #53
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You absolutely have a choice when it comes it high taxes. People leaving California make that choice all the time.
Not a flexible choice, however.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:23 PM   #54
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You absolutely have a choice when it comes it high taxes. People leaving California make that choice all the time.
Go back and read my post... I said IF you live in a taxing district you have no choice... you do have a choice in what taxing district you do wish to live...

So if I live in a place and they vote to have a new taxing district to have a new stadium for the football team... I pay... if they want to have recycling... I pay... if they want to have a community college, I pay... they are taking my money to pay for their wants...

I do not have to buy gas from Exxon if I think they pay their CEO to much... not BP etc.... sure, the gas that I buy might be from their refinery... but I have a choice where I buy gas (now, I really don't care what they pay a CEO, I want to buy my gas from the cheapest station)....
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Talk about great pension packages.
Old 07-27-2010, 09:07 PM   #55
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Talk about great pension packages.

In case you have not heard about city of Bell

If forced out, Bell city manager would be highest-paid retiree in state's pension system | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

Try to read the whole story in addition to the $26 mil pension package for this city manager of a small city of about 40,000 people.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:14 PM   #56
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In case you have not heard about city of Bell

If forced out, Bell city manager would be highest-paid retiree in state's pension system | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

Try to read the whole story in addition to the $26 mil pension package for this city manager of a small city of about 40,000 people.

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High paying govt jobs
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:24 PM   #57
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psst....the RICO act.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:16 PM   #58
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four of five council members were earning $100,000 for their part-time positions.
The council members approve the city's manager pay, but who approves the pays of the council members?
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:15 PM   #59
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The council members approve the city's manager pay, but who approves the pays of the council members?

...the city manager?
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:20 AM   #60
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...the city manager?
It's quite plausible. It's too bad for a city of residents earning a median per capita income of $13,652 to stuck with paying them outrageous pension forever unless the DA can find misdoings or frauds.
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