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Old 11-20-2008, 06:31 PM   #61
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I am itching to rebalance and get in on these low prices.
Added to my REIT position just now.

Come on in, the water is fine.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:44 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
C'mon guys, do you really think that the market won't have recovered in 15-25 years, which is when you will be using much of the money that's in your stock funds right now?

I am itching to rebalance and get in on these low prices.

I'm 59. In 15 years I'll be 74. Besides that I'm already using my retirement fund for living expenses. It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5% which is what I need to maintain my current living expenses.
So, for those of us who have had our retirements scr*wed by this market, I think that a bit of unhappiness and pessimism is in order.

On the other hand, this opportunity may allow me to find a new love for the working life, stupid bosses, and mind numbing boredom. Yahoo. Hope some company wants to hire a 59 yr old secretary with a master's degree and no experience.

But maybe I could sell my townhome, re-home my dog and go live in Chapala, Mexico, or some other cheap place where I don't know anyone, have no friends or family, and thereby, making it difficult to ever see my children and my first grandchild.

So many many wonderful, interesting lifestyle choices are opening up!

Have fun rebalancing, Trombone!
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:49 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
I'm 59. In 15 years I'll be 74. Besides that I'm already using my retirement fund for living expenses. It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5% which is what I need to maintain my current living expenses.
So, for those of us who have had our retirements scr*wed by this market, I think that a bit of unhappiness and pessimism is in order.

On the other hand, this opportunity may allow me to find a new love for the working life, stupid bosses, and mind numbing boredom. Yahoo. Hope some company wants to hire a 59 yr old secretary with a master's degree and no experience.

But maybe I could sell my townhome, re-home my dog and go live in Chapala, Mexico, or some other cheap place where I don't know anyone, have no friends or family, and thereby, making it difficult to ever see my children and my first grandchild.

So many many wonderful, interesting lifestyle choices are opening up!

Have fun rebalancing, Trombone!
Ouch. Sorry for how hard this mess is affecting you, Old Babe.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:59 PM   #64
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Old Babe , I feel your pain . I also feel scr---- by this market . I may be in the casita next to you unless this economy brightens.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:04 PM   #65
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that's a hard post on a tough position oldbabe. best of luck to you.

my parents kept a motto engraved on their office wall "attitudes are more important than facts". granted, my facts might allow an easier time to adapt a better attitude. i'm 51 (still, though that's fading fast), in 20 years i might have alzheimer's though i don't notice any signs yet (& i've sadly the training to know them when i see them) so maybe i've been spared. i have no children to visit nor to comfort me in my old age.

but i've lost so many people where i live already. i've lots of friends but they are scattered everywhere. my brother is here but his family will likely relocate when their last kid enters college in 7 years. i've a cousin my age & i enjoy her very much but she'll be moving to mexico when she (hopefully) retires at 65. i've buried too many people here. then last year two local "good friend" dumped me. so there's not a whole hell of a lot left here for me anyway.

i know i can make new friends here or anywhere. and i know the good ones among them become my family. my brother's wife was his friend and is now his family. the state might not recognize my family, but i will know them when i see them no matter where i am.

i've started looking for employment in case i decide to stay here and get to know my recently found father before he dies. when i think about work, i don't get gloomy. i'm actually a little excited to get back, having already had a 2.5 year vacation. but even if i don't find a job i'd enjoy, or one that would take me, maybe i will join the peace corp for a few years (didn't you look into this?) and let my portfolio grow out of that endeavor. or i can still just sell-out and vagabond and live cheaply enough to be in excellent financial shape again into my 60s.

all hope is not lost. when i view this downturn i feel terrible. not so much for me. i am still in so much better shape then most of the rest of the world. people are going to die. some by starvation of their stomachs, some by starvation of their souls. i will not be picking my meals off corpses but nor will i close my eyes to the carnage.

these are not the best of times, and i do not mean to be patronizing, but this truly is the best time to count your blessings. life is not easy. if it was, anyone could do it. you are only 59. you don't have to work if you don't want to, even if you had to make a few changes. you can work with the security of knowing you don't have to worry about being fired. you can travel to exotic parts of the world. you can open yourself up to new adventures. you could join the peace corp and help people for five or ten years. and when you come back you have children and grandchildren to greet you. what a fortunate life is yours.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:30 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
I'm 59. In 15 years I'll be 74. Besides that I'm already using my retirement fund for living expenses. It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5% which is what I need to maintain my current living expenses.
So, for those of us who have had our retirements scr*wed by this market, I think that a bit of unhappiness and pessimism is in order.

On the other hand, this opportunity may allow me to find a new love for the working life, stupid bosses, and mind numbing boredom. Yahoo. Hope some company wants to hire a 59 yr old secretary with a master's degree and no experience.
But maybe I could sell my townhome, re-home my dog and go live in Chapala, Mexico, or some other cheap place where I don't know anyone, have no friends or family, and thereby, making it difficult to ever see my children and my first grandchild.
So many many wonderful, interesting lifestyle choices are opening up!
Have fun rebalancing, Trombone!
i am sorry you are feeling the pinch so hard. we all are, trust me.

i will share a well known writing that is on an small cast iron plaque that my mom had for years and years. i saw and heard this often, since my early childhood. my mom used to read it out loud when times were very tough for her.
it is now mine to read out loud when things are tough for me. it is one of my most cherished treasures of hers.
you will recognize it, i know.

May God grant me the Serenity to accept things I cannot change
The Courage to change the things I can
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Hang in there.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:06 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
I'm 59. In 15 years I'll be 74. Besides that I'm already using my retirement fund for living expenses. It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5% which is what I need to maintain my current living expenses.
So, for those of us who have had our retirements scr*wed by this market, I think that a bit of unhappiness and pessimism is in order.

On the other hand, this opportunity may allow me to find a new love for the working life, stupid bosses, and mind numbing boredom. Yahoo. Hope some company wants to hire a 59 yr old secretary with a master's degree and no experience.

But maybe I could sell my townhome, re-home my dog and go live in Chapala, Mexico, or some other cheap place where I don't know anyone, have no friends or family, and thereby, making it difficult to ever see my children and my first grandchild.

So many many wonderful, interesting lifestyle choices are opening up!

Have fun rebalancing, Trombone!
If it helps, I'm pretty sure you can take your dog with you to Mexico.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:08 PM   #68
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If it helps, I'm pretty sure you can take your dog with you to Mexico.
There's also plenty of dogs rotting with mange that would love an owner.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:10 PM   #69
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Thanks to all for the kind words. I know I need an attitude adjustment and it will come eventually. Today was a particularly trying one for all of us. I am just so p*ssed that this has meltdown has happened when it didn't have to if not for the irresponsible people at fault.

So, I know that I will not be destitute like some no matter if the DOW goes to 6000 or worse. At least I will not end up homeless and pushing a grocery cart full of my belongings.

But I have to say that such a sudden change of fortune is a hard pill to swallow, especially when I have had to swallow a few other bitter pills in the past four years. It is very difficult to face giving up even more of what I value in order to secure my financial future.

Everyone's life, plans, values, are different. This economic downturn will cause very painful choices. Some of us, as Lazy points out, will be able to weather these new choices. Many others will not. When they are angry and depressed, let's all remember that we don't know the circumstances of their lives or the hard choices they have to make now.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:27 PM   #70
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Yes, it is hard and more so for some than for others.

But it's hard to imagine things just continuing until the whole world just stops working and producing. Things will return toward normal, maybe partially, over time or maybe faster than we imagine. And social security will kick in, expenses and expectations will re-adjust, and life will go on. So, buck up and enjoy all those things that money just can't buy.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #71
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Yes, it is hard and more so for some than for others.

But it's hard to imagine things just continuing until the whole world just stops working and producing. Things will return toward normal, maybe partially, over time or maybe faster than we imagine. And social security will kick in, expenses and expectations will re-adjust, and life will go on. So, buck up and enjoy all those things that money just can't buy.
Couldn't agree more. I've been moping about the market's collapse just 15 months before RE date. But I had an attitude adjustment at the weekend talking with my sister in England. Her daughter, 20, married with a 1 year old, has been having a lot of migraine-like headaches and in an examination by the doctor, shadows were observed at the back of her eyes, so she has been referred to a specialist (on Dec 4th). Her father has a brain tumor that has ruined his life to date and could end it at any time, so everyone's thoughts are immediately moving in that direction. Terrifying.

Made me feel ashamed of feeling sorry for myself over money and wishing my life away to get to that RE date.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:46 PM   #72
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What chaps me is you can't turn on a tv without someone saying were headed for a Depression. Who knows, maybe it will happen but it just compounds the fear that is already out there. Which in turn promotes further selling. I'm not expecting someone to get on tv and say things will be fine in a few months when they don't believe it, but 'Depression' scares the crap out of everyone. This is a time when a little more responsible reporting is needed.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:54 PM   #73
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Market probably will be up 10% tomorrow....I wonder if Bush should just let the new team in early with this economic crisis....
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:31 PM   #74
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What chaps me is you can't turn on a tv without someone saying were headed for a Depression. Who knows, maybe it will happen but it just compounds the fear that is already out there. Which in turn promotes further selling. I'm not expecting someone to get on tv and say things will be fine in a few months when they don't believe it, but 'Depression' scares the crap out of everyone. This is a time when a little more responsible reporting is needed.
FWIW I saw an interview with a Nobel prize winning economist who had lived through the Great Depression himself. He was a very thoughtful guy.

He said that any references to the Great Depression were complete nonesense. Between 25 and 30% of the population was unemployed and people were literally on the verge of starvation. I think it is an insult to those who experienced that very difficult period of time to make such comparisons.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:02 AM   #75
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I'm 59. In 15 years I'll be 74. Besides that I'm already using my retirement fund for living expenses. It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5% which is what I need to maintain my current living expenses.
So, for those of us who have had our retirements scr*wed by this market, I think that a bit of unhappiness and pessimism is in order.

On the other hand, this opportunity may allow me to find a new love for the working life, stupid bosses, and mind numbing boredom. Yahoo. Hope some company wants to hire a 59 yr old secretary with a master's degree and no experience.

But maybe I could sell my townhome, re-home my dog and go live in Chapala, Mexico, or some other cheap place where I don't know anyone, have no friends or family, and thereby, making it difficult to ever see my children and my first grandchild.

So many many wonderful, interesting lifestyle choices are opening up!

Have fun rebalancing, Trombone!
MY WR just hit 5% and we also have a long way to go, so I share the concern. I try to keep in mind that a current 5% WR is much more sustainable and less risky today than 3.5% was a year ago.

The bad news may not be all behind us yet, but one thing is absolutely certain - portfolio returns for the next 10-20 years will be much higher, more likely than not high enough to let us maintain our current quality of life.

Michael
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:05 AM   #76
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I'm 59. In 15 years I'll be 74. Besides that I'm already using my retirement fund for living expenses. It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5% which is what I need to maintain my current living expenses.

So, for those of us who have had our retirements scr*wed by this market, I think that a bit of unhappiness and pessimism is in order.
I understand your thinking, OldBabe, but I think that how you are spinning this in your mind is unreasonable. Things are not as bad as you are telling yourself.

Quote:
In 15 years I'll be 74.
Yes, and you'll have another 10-25 years of living to do. If the stock market has recovered by then you will have enough money to live it with. McCain ran for president at age 72 -- you will probably have enough energy to enjoy life.

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It can't recover very well while I'm taking out at least 5.5%...
Sure it can, and probably will. Phrasing it as you have is misleading. If one chooses a 5.5% SWR when starting, he/she will have less chance of success. But if one chooses a 4% SWR, and because of market fluctuations, ends up taking 5.5% out during some years, he/she can expect the probability of success predicted by FIRECalc. Those are two very different things.

Take heart, Babe!
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:16 PM   #77
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All I can sat is Im not gonna lose any $$$ tomorrow
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:56 PM   #78
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FWIW I saw an interview with a Nobel prize winning economist who had lived through the Great Depression himself. He was a very thoughtful guy.

He said that any references to the Great Depression were complete nonesense. Between 25 and 30% of the population was unemployed and people were literally on the verge of starvation. I think it is an insult to those who experienced that very difficult period of time to make such comparisons.
Thank you for this post. I was thinking the same thing (well having watched documentaries on the Great Depression) that what we are experiencing is probably nothing compared to what they had to go through.

It's really weird, but when people talk about the grim economy now comparing it with the Great Depression (don't get me wrong, I feel heavy just thinking about how my net woth has shrunk and think about the possibility of setting my retirement year to be further away etc, etc), I think of Russell Crowe. (What??)

Cinderella Man (the movie) - The movie was set in the Great Depression era and Russel Crow goes through dead-end jobs, but he tries hard to re-enter the boxing world so he could take care of his family better. I watched this movie years ago, so I may not be entirely correct, but in one scene, his wife is cooking a sandwich thin slice of balogna in a cast iron fry pan for dinner(or was it breakfast?)... and Russell Crowe says he is not hungry (only days before his boxing match) so his kids can eat it...


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Old 11-21-2008, 07:00 PM   #79
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Notes to myself:

Buy a case of Spam and keep it in a cool dark place for the rainy days....

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Old 11-21-2008, 07:09 PM   #80
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Not to be a total downer, but unemployment was less than 5% in 1929, and about 8% in 1930. The peak rate of 24% wasn't until 1933, four years after the stock market crashed. I don't believe it's valid to try and make side by side comparisons of then and now, but it takes time for these things to ripple out. We have no idea how bad it might be. Hopefully it won't be too harsh but it's a little early to be calling this ballgame.
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