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Old 11-23-2008, 05:39 PM   #101
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If you are already retired this must be really difficult and I truly sympathize. In all honesty I genuinely don't believe that there will be a Depression. One of the major contributing factors to the 1930s Depression was the fact that the US government clamped down on spending in pursuit of a balanced budget. This time, the G20 and APEC will be stimulating their economies BBC NEWS | Americas | Apec upbeat over global downturn . And rest assured that while George Bush couldn't say anything of substance at those meetings, Barack Obama and his team are planning to implement the economic stimulus plan immediately after assuming office. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...I1_0s&refer=us What a great opportunity to replenish infrastructure and build green technologies! Hey, even if there is another Depression, there is hope for the markets for those who have a strong stomach and reinvest dividends: globeandmail.com: Globe Investor Magazine.

So hang in there guys....we will get through this.

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Old 11-23-2008, 06:40 PM   #102
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Yes, it is hard and more so for some than for others....So, buck up and enjoy all those things that money just can't buy.
years ago, i had bilateral carpal tunnel release surgery and had to go to PT for many months to get back digital dexterity and rebuild hand strength. months of stretching and squeezing yellow putty would make anyone a little crazy, but it paid off.
for a month or so, an older lady with crippling arthritis in her hands was my "exercise buddy", we would do our putty and button picking up and all sorts of zany manual dexterity exercises. it was like being in kindergarten again, we giggled so much.

one day she was kinda serious and shared a profound thought with me...i'm paraphrasing her here...
"imagine you are in a room full of people, with a big huge table in the middle. each of you must put your troubles on the table, and you are allowed to leave yours behind, but you must pick up somebody else's in exchange for your own.
9 times out of 10, you will pick your own troubles right back up, for there are always those whose troubles far exceed your own."

i will never forget that story. it has helped me through many a dark rainy time.

please find or better yet, make a rainbow, folks.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:00 PM   #103
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years ago, i had bilateral carpal tunnel release surgery and had to go to PT for many months to get back digital dexterity and rebuild hand strength. months of stretching and squeezing yellow putty would make anyone a little crazy, but it paid off.
for a month or so, an older lady with crippling arthritis in her hands was my "exercise buddy", we would do our putty and button picking up and all sorts of zany manual dexterity exercises. it was like being in kindergarten again, we giggled so much.

one day she was kinda serious and shared a profound thought with me...i'm paraphrasing her here...
"imagine you are in a room full of people, with a big huge table in the middle. each of you must put your troubles on the table, and you are allowed to leave yours behind, but you must pick up somebody else's in exchange for your own.
9 times out of 10, you will pick your own troubles right back up, for there are always those whose troubles far exceed your own."

i will never forget that story. it has helped me through many a dark rainy time.

please find or better yet, make a rainbow, folks.
Thats pretty neat. Yep most of the time I would pick my troubles back up...
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:38 PM   #104
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Freebird, that is a great philosophy. The troubles we know are easier to handle than those we don't, for sure.
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:39 PM   #105
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I never had a #401k or even a IRA..but if I did? I'd vote for it..
How magnanimous of you to take away something you never had to benefit those that don't save.

Like Robbin Hood no?

Even after the market tanking and taking away 50% of peoples savings. The savings they have left will still pay out more than twice as much as they'd get with social security.

Lets say someone starts working out of college for $40,000 (about average income) but they didn't read the fine print so they never get a COLA or a raise and work the job until they are 65 and start collecting social security. If they stuck the 12.4% social security is already taking from their paycheck in TIPS they'd have $350,000 with inflation around 3%. The payout is about $1,000/month at 65 or $12,000/year. 3% of $350,000 is $10,500 They are only paying slightly more than 3% of your total contributions each year. The average life expectancy is only 77.5. So the average government pay out is $150,000. If you were to withdraw from a personal account at the same rate of $12,000/year until it was empty you'd be able to withdraw $824,000 over the next 69 years. or over the same 13 years you could withdraw 35,000 per year, nearly three times as much. And even screwing people over to that extent isn't going to be enough because the government didn't put the money into TIPs or even into a piggy bank, they spent it so now the entire system will become insolvent the moment there are more retirees than workers.

If they're going to enact another social security tax I'm gonna have to start looking for a government job so I can get exempt.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:05 PM   #106
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Freebird, that is a great philosophy. The troubles we know are easier to handle than those we don't, for sure.
my guess is something very serious had happened in her life and this was her way of telling me without telling me. she was a grand lady. i was 38 and i'm guessing she was in her late 60s. she told me over and over that i made her laugh and feel young again.
i have passed the gift of her story of "the big table" to many people.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:47 PM   #107
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The "9 out of 10 times you will pick up your own troubles again" story is very cute.

The lady explained it as how 9/10 times the troubles we face are less burdensome in magnitude than those of others. But that is not possible on average, at least unless you include the troubles of those who are facing imminent death, as that kind of outlier certainly skews results! It's more of a "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" story, as Bestwifeever expressed.

But even more insightful is the recognition that, all too often, we are oh-so comfortable with our own troubles. Sure, random lightning bolts may hit, and death awaits us all, but our favorite (and often, strangely the worst) troubles are ones we coddle and nurture to maturity all on our own. We actually LIKE them! We cherish them, as they satisfy some need most of us have to feel the bite of anger, or to wallow in self pity over.

Respectfully, the lady may have gotten it wrong. If only we knew how to take that first step - to put ones' troubles on the table in the first place - we would likely be ecstatic about picking up someone else's in exchange, for some random trouble wouldn't compare a whit to our very own favored ones.

But most of us don't know how to take that first step and lay our tired, obsolete but still cherished troubles down, do we? It's a skill I wish I had.

Cheers.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:51 AM   #108
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The lady explained it as how 9/10 times the troubles we face are less burdensome in magnitude than those of others. But that is not possible on average
I'm sure that if she was thinking globally and the room full of people selected randomly was from the whole world then more than 9 out 10 of the folks in the world would have bigger troubles than one of us in this country.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:57 AM   #109
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"imagine you are in a room full of people, with a big huge table in the middle. each of you must put your troubles on the table, and you are allowed to leave yours behind, but you must pick up somebody else's in exchange for your own.
9 times out of 10, you will pick your own troubles right back up, for there are always those whose troubles far exceed your own."
Excellent - very true - thanks I'll try to remember that.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:57 AM   #110
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Good point, Alan, but we're probably not much happier than anyone else either.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:01 AM   #111
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Good point, Alan, but we're probably not much happier than anyone else either.
Grep, glad you are able to pitch in and help with the out of control euphoria that's been growing around here.

Ha
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:13 PM   #112
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the true beauty of the lady's "big table" story is that it is a true thought provoker. there is no right or wrong answer.

cliche du jour - one man's ceiling is another man's floor.

philosophy du jour -

in good times, you will definitely pick your own troubles back up. whew!

in bad times, you have 2 choices - leave yours there and get a "lesser" trouble back OR realize that everyone has troubles on the big table, lesser or greater, but yours are still your own and therefore you will keep them.
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:53 PM   #113
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"if you have no troubles, buy a goat"~~proverb
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:56 PM   #114
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"I cried because I had no shoes, 'till I met a man who had no feet. So I said, 'You got any shoes you're not using'?"

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Old 11-24-2008, 08:19 PM   #115
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"i cried because i had no shoes. then i saw someone with really bad shoes."~~karen walker, will & grace
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