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Hooray Kaderlis. I envy your moxy!
Old 06-24-2007, 07:59 AM   #1
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Hooray Kaderlis. I envy your moxy!

I have been following the Kaderlis for a few years, as well as a few others that ERd early.

Two Week Millionaires

My hat is off to you for the follow through on your plan. Every time I read one of your articles, I feel recharged and eager to RE.


They have openly shared their trips, lives, and approach with the rest of us. For that, thank you!
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Old 06-24-2007, 09:34 AM   #2
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They are an inspiriation for us all. I hope to meet them someday.
A couple of thoughts that they touch on in their story. Once you get rid of the material thinking lifestyle the world looks like a different place; you have more time and are more at peace. Things just get in the way.

When negociating in a foreign country you are at the most disadvantaged as you will ever be. The seller knows the quailty and cost of what you want; they know you are rich (to most of the world anyway, if not yourself) and they know how to negociate. Most of us in the west might expect 10 -15% negociating room in the price but, the starting price could be 10 times the local (person) price for the item.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:49 PM   #3
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My hat is off to you for the follow through on your plan. Every time I read one of your articles, I feel recharged and eager to RE.
Thanks, Chinaco. As well you should be! Being charged up to live the life you want to live is exactly the motivation that will bring you there. So much in the news tells us we can't do it. Funny, it's been 17 years for us now, and we are doing exactly what the talking heads say can't be done. Remember: They are still working!


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They have openly shared their trips, lives, and approach with the rest of us. For that, thank you!


Again, you are most welcome. We do this so that you know it can be done. You may not want our approach, or our financial choices, but if we can do it, you can too. Live the life you want to live!

Dex

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They are an inspiriation for us all. I hope to meet them someday.


Thanks, Dex. That would be lovely!

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A couple of thoughts that they touch on in their story. Once you get rid of the material thinking lifestyle the world looks like a different place; you have more time and are more at peace. Things just get in the way.


Exactly. Stuff is just stuff. People, contacts, sharing, friendship, experiences -- all of this matters much more to us than things...


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When negociating in a foreign country you are at the most disadvantaged as you will ever be.


When negotiating, Billy starts at about 1/3 of the vendor's asking price. Both the vendor and he know that this price is 'ridiculously' low, but the vendor respects you if you barter.

Expect some eye rolling, some sob story, and they may even walk away, (or you might have to) as you shimmy into the price you will pay. You can always go up in your price, but you can never go down after you state a beginning price. Also, Rule #1 is you don't engage a vendor unless you are actually interested in buying. They don't want to waste their time and energy on someone who isn't interested. This actually will get them a bit upset...

Thanks for taking the time to read our 'Millionaire' piece.

Be well,

Akaisha
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:43 PM   #4
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Akaisha,
I was in Moraco and I was actually complimented on my negociating by the Arab sellers - once they told the tour leader and the other time I was told by the seller directly.
I'm not into things but I sometimes buy things for the people at home. As is usual you are taken to a rug shop and I watched how the sellers and buyers acted - I didn't buy anything - it was very informative.
Think about this as theater and you will get the idea. This is for men buyers and sellers.
First - dress the part - if you are wearing expensive clothes, a watch or diamond ring - take them off before you are seen.
Second - Slow down - take your time.
Third - Sit close to the seller - break down the personal space
Fourth - ask for tea the way the locals drink it
Fifth - call the seller friend or brother even
Sixth - touch him on the arm to break the personal barriers
Seventh - don't be affraid to get angry
Eight - Don't be affraid to walk out - it is part of the act
Ninth - this is an important one - I noticed that the seller would come down $30 but the buyer would come up $50 or $100
Finally, they won't sell it to you if they aren't making money on it.

I've been told by people who live in such countries that this gets to be old fast. Also, the Japanese are loved in countries who haggle because the Japaneses are not used to it at all.

Bottom line - there is a local price and a foreigner price. I consider the overpayment a little of spreading the wealth.


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Old 06-25-2007, 01:07 AM   #5
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[FONT=Times New Roman]Akaisha,
I was in Moraco and I was actually complimented on my negociating by the Arab sellers - once they told the tour leader and the other time I was told by the seller directly.
Whenever I hear that I can't help but wonder if it's just profit-fueled flattery.

As CFB has said before, a true bargain is one where they shoot you a glare that says they suspect you of poisoning their dog but can't prove it!
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:55 AM   #6
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As CFB has said before, a true bargain is one where they shoot you a glare that says they suspect you of poisoning their dog but can't prove it!
This is on a very small scale, but while in Laos, I had to bargain (well I really didn't) even for a simple bowl of noodle soup. The vendor asked 6000kips, I told him firmly 4000kip. The vendor agrees and glares at me as he services me the soup. Although he charges the natives 3000kip, he glared at me because he thought, he could make a nice profit on me (by his standards).

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Old 06-25-2007, 03:29 AM   #7
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This is on a very small scale, but while in Laos, I had to bargain (well I really didn't) even for a simple bowl of noodle soup. The vendor asked 6000kips, I told him firmly 4000kip. The vendor agrees and glares at me as he services me the soup. Although he charges the natives 3000kip, he glared at me because he thought, he could make a nice profit on me (by his standards).

MJ

You upset the applecart for that person. You should gladly pay the "Rich American" tax. Otherwise they cannot go home and brag about the big fish that was landed that day.
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:03 AM   #8
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When bargaining for a silk comforter in Suzhou China this April, the vendor started at 600 yuan (about US$78 ). We muttered to each other, and he instantly dropped to 450 Y. We countered with 150 Y (the 1/3 rule we'd been told by a number of travelers). After back-and-forthing, and getting up to leave, we ended at 280 Y (US$36). I still don't know if they closed the shop right after we left and announced to all their neighbors "beer's on us! Americans!". Probably. Especially considering the (low) price of beer in China.
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:34 PM   #9
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A good bargain is when both buyer and seller walk away feeling they cheated the other guy got the best of the deal.

Billy and Akaisha, I too hope to share a beer with the two of you some day. Great story and a terrific inspiration to all of us. A continued 'good life' to the both of you.
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:49 PM   #10
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I was on a tour in Panama and wanted to buy a mola (handstitched fabric hanging). I just couldn't seem to talk the seller down to a reasonable price. I was in a group of tourists who were all buying from him. When everyone else in the group had purchased their molas, the seller came back to me and I got it for a price lower than I had expected.

Clearly the seller didn't want to "poison the well" by selling to me at a reasonable price when that would mean everyone else would demand the same price.

The lesson is that discretion is an asset when negotiating... the more you can do to reassure the seller that you will keep your deal on the down low, the more likely you are to get a good deal.
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:49 PM   #11
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Most chinese businesses believe the first sale of the day sets the tone/pace of subsequent sales for that day. I learned it the embarrassing way.

12 years ago, I was in Cho Lon (Saigon). One morning around 9 o'clock I saw a neat hand made toy in a just opened (for the day) store. I went in with the intend to buy. To my surprise, the price the owner told me was very reasonable, but I was burned many times before and was determined not to be taken again. So I offered 1/2 the asked price, and ended up buying the toy at 75% of originally quoted price.

When I got home and showed it to my local relatives, everyone was surprised. It was too cheap. Then, they explained to me: The owner was basically selling the item to me at cost or even possibly at a loss, because he had to make the first sale of the day a success and hassle free.
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:53 AM   #12
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Akaisha,
I was in Moraco and I was actually complimented on my negociating by the Arab sellers - once they told the tour leader and the other time I was told by the seller directly.
Dex, your tips were excellent! Very useful. You are certainly skilled. Breaking the personal barrier is noteworthy.


megacorp-firee
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Billy and Akaisha, I too hope to share a beer with the two of you some day. Great story and a terrific inspiration to all of us. A continued 'good life' to the both of you.


Thank you for your kind words! It would be wonderful to share happy hour with you and yours. The best to you also...

Free4now
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The lesson is that discretion is an asset when negotiating...


Absolutely. There is nothing worse than offending or embarrassing a vendor. It's simply not necessary. And they won't forget you!

Sam
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because he had to make the first sale of the day a success and hassle free.


Yes, I had forgotten about the first sale of the day. We will often go to markets when they first open - whether it's a morning market or the Night Market. If you get there first, you are generally guaranteed a good deal. All the vendors want to make a sale quick to get the day (or night) going. Sometimes we will even bring it up. "First sale?" and go from there.

Here in Thailand, they take the money from the first sale and tap it all over their vending table to bring the luck to the whole table. Certainly, if you know how to barter, it can be fun.

Be well,

Akaisha
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:56 AM   #13
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Billy/Akaisha - loved the surf's up post as well as the 2 week millionaire - what I really love is the practical advice on how to bargain and some of the cultural insight so that when I go, I'm a bit more knowledgeable.

As for bargaining - yes, it's interesting -one really needs to have the time, which isn't usually available on the 2 week trip. I've also noticed I've gotten into local-itis, i.e. not willing to pay much more than a local - this hit hard when I lived in Ecuador for my language training.

On a different note - you might find this interesting - we went hiking this weekend on part of the Pacific Crest Trail - we were just doing a day trip (yes, we still work -argghhh!). However, we met a young man who was a through hiker - he started on 2 May at the Mexican border and 1050 miles later on the trail between Tryon Pass and Ebbets Pass ran into us - we stopped and talked for awhile - he's almost halfway done - does 20-30 miles daily and had seen his first two bears that day (we were a bit dismayed as it was in the direction we were hiking!). In any case, yet another way to spend one's time -eh? He was 24, so had the break and time, but then I've run into an older couple in their 50's who were on their way to do the PCT.

In any case - thanks as usual for your great info and advice!

Bridget
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Old 06-27-2007, 11:59 PM   #14
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Billy/Akaisha - loved the surf's up post as well as the 2 week millionaire - what I really love is the practical advice on how to bargain and some of the cultural insight so that when I go, I'm a bit more knowledgeable.
Hi Bridget! You are most welcome. Knowing the culture really helps the transition time in adjusting and making it more like 'home.' Happy that you enjoyed both of our pieces and thanks for your support!

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he started on 2 May at the Mexican border and 1050 miles later
Simply amazing. Walking 1,000+ miles! Those are experiences one can never replace. And it's good to know that there are those in their 50's that are doing it also. Gives me hope still! ha!

Be well,

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Old 06-28-2007, 10:27 AM   #15
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I enjoyed the recent stories and pictures (two-week millionaire, surf's up).

I can think of alternate captions for the Thai Massage story, however:

Cheap Charlie pay more next time, yes?



Wake up! No more napping in lobby!



No more sleeping -- time to make bed!

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Old 06-28-2007, 08:34 PM   #16
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Perfect Al! You're hired!!

Glad you liked the latest pieces too. Thanks for taking the time to view.

Be well,
Akaisha
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