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Old 11-16-2013, 02:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Hmm...looking at some of the property tax numbers, it is perhaps relevant to disclose whether there is a state income tax (i.e., in some states, the lack of a state income tax is compensated for by higher real property taxes).
A very valid point. Our property taxes are $5075 a year, but we are in Texas with no state income tax.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:38 AM   #42
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
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$12,863.81 directly from budget SS. No Mortgage, 3,500sqft, Florida (No State IT). Largest bill RE Taxes ($5606), followed by Insurance, HOA, Electricity.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:58 AM   #43
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Location: A little ways southwest of Chicago
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3800 sf on 5 acres in far sw suburbs of chicago

taxes 7571
maint, etc 2932
utils 4200
ins 2386
Total 17089

I need to downsize
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:48 AM   #44
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Paid off 2 BR townhome near Phoenix AZ.

HOA: $170 (includes water, trash, external maintenance)
Electricity: $105 (level payment plan)
Internet & landline: $80
Cable: $80
Contents insurance: $30

So $465x12 = $5,580 + Property taxes approx $650 =

Total $6,230

No idea on the home repairs, although since roof/structure/landscaping is handled from HOA the big ticket expenditures would probably be AC unit, hot water heater, internal plumbing, and regular wear & tear on flooring.
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:11 AM   #45
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Annual figures:

$11,551 Property tax
$ 3,160 Homeowner's Insurance plus umbrella
$ 1,225 Electric
$ 1,700 Natural gas (heat, hot water, stove and dryer)
$ 425 Water
$ 5,000 Home repairs, maintenance, garden and lawn

$23,061 Subtotal

$ 1,428 Cable
$ 325 Landline phone

$24,814 Total (including what are arguably discretionary items)

I live in a 160 year old, 2505 sq.ft. house in coastal CT, where the top personal income tax rate is 6.5% We also pay property tax on our cars at the same rate as our house (currently, the tax on the cars totals $785 per year).
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:20 AM   #46
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these number are frighteningly high. Just imaging adding says $14,000.00 for a mortgage, young people will work the first two week just to pay for housing only.

Welcome to America. :-) I wonder why don't we just adapt Japanese or Europe's life style where housing are much smaller and doesn't really "eating" them alive.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:26 AM   #47
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Welcome to America. :-) I wonder why don't we just adapt Japanese or Europe's life style where housing are much smaller and doesn't really "eating" them alive.
Smaller homes are common in Vancouver where purchase prices are insane.

Vancouver 'micro-lofts' billed as smallest in Canada - British Columbia - CBC News

I think many homebuyers focus on the purchase price and not on the operating costs.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:27 AM   #48
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California homeowner -

HOA Dues: $1788
Property Taxes: $4785
HO Insurance: $681
Earthquake Insurance: $1466
Water/Trash/Gas/Electric: $2150
Internet: $460
Gardening Service: $720
Termite Tenting (surprise!): $2000
Tree trimming: $250
Pest control service: $320
TOTAL: $14,620/12 = $1,218 per month

(No cable, no landline)
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:39 AM   #49
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Welcome to America. :-) I wonder why don't we just adapt Japanese or Europe's life style where housing are much smaller and doesn't really "eating" them alive.
Is the average person in Japan or Europe really paying less of their income for housing than the average American? According to Property Prices Index by Country 2013 the United States looks very favorable in both home price to income ratio and mortgage to income.

If I had to guess I'd say a cultural acceptance of multi-generational housing (especially among young adults) would have more to do with what many are spending on housing in Japan/Europe vs. United States than actual home cost.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:49 AM   #50
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Location: Lawn chair in Texas
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1650sf "ranch" in sub-urbia...

Prop tax: $2700 (no state income tax)
HOI: $920
Elec: $1000
NatGas: $400
Water/Sewer/Trash: $677
Lawn: ~$600

Total: $5397

Lots of incidentals, like fertilizer, water/air filters, etc., though I don't track them individually...
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:59 AM   #51
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...

How does a low income person can afford to keep their house? let alone eating, and unexpected bills?? $600-$1200/mon without mortgage?? Social security aren't gonna cut it. :-(
Soc Sec was never meant to be a person's sole means of support. It was described as one leg of a three legged stool. If one can't afford such an expensive place, they should find a lower cost one. Simple. Some posters here have done just that - their reported housing expenses are lower than a typical SS check.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuff2Eat View Post
....
Welcome to America. :-) I wonder why don't we just adapt Japanese or Europe's life style where housing are much smaller and doesn't really "eating" them alive.
Because we don't want to? And we don't have to?

For the people reporting high expenses, I don't generally see them saying "Oh my! This is killing me, eating me alive! What should I do??!!" A few might be thinking of downsizing at this point, probably as they have become empty nesters.

-ERD50
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:22 AM   #52
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Is the average person in Japan or Europe really paying less of their income for housing than the average American? According to Property Prices Index by Country 2013 the United States looks very favorable in both home price to income ratio and mortgage to income...
Homes in other developed countries tend to be smaller than US homes, yet cost much more. And their disposable incomes are often lower. The statistics in the above link bear this out. And I suspect that the maintenance and operating costs are also higher in other developed countries.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:28 AM   #53
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Smaller homes are common in Vancouver where purchase prices are insane.

Vancouver 'micro-lofts' billed as smallest in Canada - British Columbia - CBC News

I think many homebuyers focus on the purchase price and not on the operating costs.
Excerpt from article:
"The suites, which range in size from 226 to 291 square feet, go for an average of $850 per month, including cable and internet."

For comparison, a typical class A motorhome is 35 ft long and 8 ft wide, for a square footage of 280 sq.ft. It likely has slide-outs, from 1 up to 4, that expand the space significantly. The operating cost is however often significantly more than $850/month.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:07 AM   #54
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This is a very interesting excercise and fun to see the results .....
I'll chime in ~~~

2,100 sq foot home on one level
Sedona, AZ
670 insurance
2268 taxes (2.4% state tax)
3540 water, sewer, electric, trash
180 HOA

$6,658 annual
$555/month

views of the magnificent red rocks - FREE!
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:11 AM   #55
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Taxes $4,800
Insurance $1400
utilities $3920
repairs $3000 ( new lanscaping ,new pool pump & automatic cleaner )
total $12,620

3,800 square feet on Sarsaota Bay with a pool
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:24 AM   #56
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OK I'm leaving myself wide open for criticism here. We have 4 places with the following yearly costs: Canmore-$36k, Ontario lake house $40k (although much higher this year), Toronto condo-$24k, Arizona about $90k (although we are still getting this place into shape). This includes some travel to get between the places. Certainly not cheap. The value of our personal use real estate represents about 20% of our net worth. Really enjoy these places but certainly not a life style for everyone.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:36 AM   #57
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OK I'm leaving myself wide open for criticism here. We have 4 places with the following yearly costs: Canmore-$36k, Ontario lake house $40k (although much higher this year), Toronto condo-$24k, Arizona about $90k (although we are still getting this place into shape). This includes some travel to get between the places. Certainly not cheap. The value of our personal use real estate represents about 20% of our net worth. Really enjoy these places but certainly not a life style for everyone.
Criticism no, envy, perhaps. More like: how the hell did Danmar amass such wealth?

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Old 11-16-2013, 11:38 AM   #58
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Criticism no, envy, perhaps. More like: how the hell did Danmar amass such wealth?
How to make a million in real estate? Start with two million...
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:39 AM   #59
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Suburban California
1670 sq foot home, less than 10 years old with stucco exterior (so low maintenance).

Property tax 5600
Insurance 650
Utilities 1452
Water, sewer, garbage 1200
HOA 1452
Upkeep 1200
Total 11,554

I do a lot of gardening in my back yard and did not include those costs. I consider that my hobby, not an expense. The HOA includes front yard maintenance including plant replacement.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:44 AM   #60
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OK I'm leaving myself wide open for criticism here...

The value of our personal use real estate represents about 20% of our net worth.

Really enjoy these places but certainly not a life style for everyone.
No criticism from me.

And how do you know people would not do the same, if they had your means?

PS. By the way, my 2 homes are also about 20% 22% of my NW, roughly the same as your 4 homes to your NW. And my homes are a lot smaller, just based your operating costs.
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