Housing Crisis? Maybe the problem is how few communities in America are attractive.

[bld999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 .... I am curious about something, since you bring multiple dwellings up: how do you maintain all 3? One of the showstoppers for me in being tempted to acquire a rural cabin is that I simply cannot imagine having the time to deal with more than one house to maintain.

Having multiples is also sometimes a housing crisis. When the values are ascending, it's a crisis of joy; when stuff breaks on it's schedule instead of yours, it's a crisis of pain.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 I am curious about something, since you bring multiple dwellings up: how do you maintain all 3? One of the showstoppers for me in being tempted to acquire a rural cabin is that I simply cannot imagine having the time to deal with more than one house to maintain.

Actually his number is 4, but I'm sure if he was pressed, the pied-a-terre in Toronto could be eliminated. The mountain home is for tax reasons. The other 2 are lifestyle choices. I know several less wealthy friends who make do with 2, including me.

As to maintaining multiple homes, there is another thread here that exhausts that topic.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Even crowded suburbs like the surrounds of LA, SF, or DC make me miserable.

OK, this is a good point.

There are different densities of suburbs. There are exburbs. Etc.

It has kind of been unfair for me to talk about central city vs. suburb since that is a very vague comparison.

There are suburbs with many dense housing projects separated by less density. The net effect is not good. You get all the traffic and all the problems with few of the benefits of suburbia. I'm thinking of many of the Chicago suburbs.

I will admit that I'd probably rather live in the city near good transportation and retail in this case.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bld999 Having multiples is also sometimes a housing crisis. When the values are ascending, it's a crisis of joy; when stuff breaks on it's schedule instead of yours, it's a crisis of pain.

It's still not something that a lot of money can't solve.

And people say money is overrated.

[foxfirev5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound It's still not something that a lot of money can't solve. And people say money is overrated.

Lot's of money is even better

[rayinpenn]

Chasing School districts
I lived on LI in a $500k tiny cape cod in a so so school district with high taxes. I sent my daughter and son to catholic school - more $. My daughters reading was slightly behind where it should have been. An opportunity came for me to move to PA, we shopped and bought in a well regarded school district. The teachers evaluated her and created a plan of action - Bam ten years later my applied mathematics major deans list daughter is at a top 100 university. Funny thing my $430k house is twice the size of my old cape cod the taxes are less and the living is easy...

It sometimes is the inflexibility of many that causes the problem ....LI like many other communities are not the only game in town...


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[daylatedollarshort]

We have a yard with trees in a walkable area near mass transit, parks and open space. DH has pushed in the past to move further out where housing is less expensive, but then we would have to drive everywhere. I'd rather use the money to keep living in a walkable area, and I'm used to city living. We aren't getting any younger, so I like having bus and train service close by.

Added - We usually drive now because we save walking times for walking the dog as he is not allowed in the shops and restaurants. But everything we need like groceries, the bank, restaurants, post office, and library are all within a 1 mile radius so we could walk or maybe electric scooter to eventually.

[NW-Bound]

I'd rather live a bit out, where the density is not as high, traffic is lighter, and there are ample parking spaces. For short driving distances, I could get a short-range all-electric EV. A slightly used Leaf is dirt cheap.

In some metropolitan areas, to be in a spot where I would feel comfortable would require to be pretty far out.

[Closet_Gamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllDone In the US we also have a strong cultural preference for single family homes, which, obviously, don't lend themselves to walkable density. It's a shame, really, because for a lot of people the yard around the house is just one more chore and not even such a great buffer from the inconsiderate neighbor.

Good point...I think it's an unfortunate by-product of our "I'll do what I please" culture...I will never share walls again not because I'm antisocial, but because I don't want to hear your bass/stereo, know what your watching on TV, fighting with your spouse about, etc.

I'm blessed with very quiet neighbors in a very quiet community right now...but in general my goal is that each time I move I double the space between me and the neighbors...

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bld999 Having multiples is also sometimes a housing crisis. When the values are ascending, it's a crisis of joy; when stuff breaks on it's schedule instead of yours, it's a crisis of pain.

OK. But if it's not a big percentage of your net worth it shouldn't be a big issue. I have always treated our real estate as capital gone, eg forget about it.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 I am curious about something, since you bring multiple dwellings up: how do you maintain all 3? One of the showstoppers for me in being tempted to acquire a rural cabin is that I simply cannot imagine having the time to deal with more than one house to maintain.

Use property management co's for 2 of the properties, the Toronto condo is lock and go. Ontario lake house takes some attention, but well worth it. Property management has become a bir of a hobbie. Certainly not for everyone but I enjoy the whole thing. You might be surprised as to what you can manage. Agree not for most. But I love it.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort We have a yard with trees in a walkable area near mass transit, parks and open space.

A few years ago anyway this sort of place was easy to find, but expensive in many fairly urban East Bay Communities. I lived on North Campus side in Berkeley. I worked downtown Berkeley on Shattuck Street. It was a 15 minute walk, down a typical leafy, pleasant Berkeley street..My building was a home converted into a 5 plex. We often gathered in the evening for drinks in the back yard.

I don't get all the worry about no trees, too much concrete, the horrors of someone living on the other side of a wall. 2 blocks from where I live there are nice, well designed town homes with decent light on all 4 sides. They have 2 downsides. They cost plenty, like $1mm and up. Also, you have to be young to handle all the up and down. Aging in place would take some luck.

Many US cities everywhere except the bombed out shotgun house districts in the poor parts of eastern US cities have nice, very pleasant neighborhoods. They just tend to cost a lot.

I think the majority here favor suburbs, and luckily this is an area where many of us still have choice. But I'm like Greenspun, give me the city. Not an ugly, frightening South Bronx version, but one of the many nice central city neighborhoods all over America. Likely none of them are cheap now, but as other posters have said, that isn't important except to decide whether you can handle the cost. I have friends who raised their families in the 80s in the same Seattle neighborhood where I am living now. Looking back, they didn't miss anything that I got by moving out for that phase of my life. Today however it would be hard for most people to afford the large 1920s single family homes that they occupied.

Today I had to do a lot of little errands that most places would have taken me multiple trips to Lowes, etc.etc. But I got 12,000 steps and 32 floors, just pleasantly walking around in a 6x10 block area. I never have to eat fast food or pay for a meal that I am not looking forward to enjoying because I have to stack car-trips to avoid more miles. I just walk home and eat. Today I also walked 2 blocks to a little park and did some sunbathing. And cities bigger than Seattle just add more social and cultural features, for more money but no important deletions from quality of life.

The more I think about this, the more I think the issue is money, whether you want to live somewhere where you own the whole mountain top, or in an attractive lively neighborhood in a central city.

Ha

[38Chevy454]

Job location has a lot to do with what housing situation you can choose. So does personal preference and what you prefer for living. If your job is only in big city central downtown, you either live in high density walking range or suburbs and tolerate the commute. For this exact reason many will work in the suburbs, even if less money potential, for quality of life reasons.

I can't ever be happy in a big city high density housing. Even suburb apartment or condo drives me nuts. Give me land space and even outside suburb limits and I am happier. Yardwork and upkeep are not a bad thing to me. I like my cars and freedom to drive where and when i want. No buses and loud smelly city out here in the country. One of the main reasons I am much happier being out of SF bay area suburbs where I used to live, although I will admit I had it pretty good there considering my commute was only 6 miles. However a long commute now here would not be as much fun, fortunately I have an easy drive, 23 miles and about 25 minutes.

Back to the orig question, housing crisis is probably driven by good vs bad neighborhoods and limited options for good areas in the cities.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha ... The more I think about this, the more I think the issue is money, whether you want to live somewhere where you own the whole mountain top, or in an attractive lively neighborhood in a central city...

Yes, that's what it boils down to: having more money allows one more choices.

I do not care to live in the LA area, but that's only because I do not have enough money. If I did, Pacific Palisades would be very livable.

However, I would not care to live in an apartment overlooking Central Park NYC, even if I had that kind of money. It just does not fit my personality.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha A few years ago anyway this sort of place was easy to find, but expensive in many fairly urban East Bay Communities. I lived on North Campus side in Berkeley. I worked downtown Berkeley on Shattuck Street. It was a 15 minute walk, down a typical leafy, pleasant Berkeley street..My building was a home converted into a 5 plex. We often gathered in the evening for drinks in the back yard.

I just got a library card from the Berkeley public library. The tie dyed version!

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Yes, that's what it boils down to: having more money allows one more choices. I do not care to live in the LA area, but that's only because I do not have enough money. If I did, Pacific Palisades would be very livable. However, I would not care to live in an apartment overlooking Central Park NYC, even if I had that kind of money. It just does not fit my personality.

Money can even change the meaning of "apartments and condos". In my middle class world those terms remind me of 800-1700 sq. ft and the potential for noisy neighbors. Some of those buildings near Central Park have 3000 plus square foot "apartment and condos" in them. I call that a house!


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[NW-Bound]

Sure. Some of them take up an entire floor. And I am sure that the rich neighbors or building cotenants are all very nice.

Still, when you get down to the streets, it is still crowded. With money, you do not have to take the metro, and can take a cab or even a limousine to go to your favorite restaurants, but in traffic jams you still breathe exhaust fumes. Ugh! That's not quality life for me.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Sure. Some of them take up an entire floor. And I am sure that the rich neighbors or building cotenants are all very nice. Still, when you get down to the streets, it is still crowded. With money, you do not have to take the metro, and can take a cab or even a limousine to go to your favorite restaurants, but in traffic jams you still breathe exhaust fumes. Ugh! That's not quality life for me.

Crowds are something I am just too late in life to deal with except for the usual suspects of vacations, ball games, or concerts. In my small town world if someone is walking next to you and not giving you 10 feet spacing they must be an oddball or idiot. I am not used to banging shoulders while walking.


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[Danmar]

Yes agree that crowds are uncomfortable. I think that is why we don't enjoy the Toronto condo as much as we used to. Traffic is awful, construction everywhere and the Pan Am games start next week. Ugh!

[Tree-dweller]

We have lived in a close suburb of a major eastern city for 30 years. We bought this modest sfh when we wed specifically because of the well regarded schoool system and the reasonably short commute to the city where we both worked. The house is in a nondescript neighborhood, where neighbors keep to themselves, but it worked for us. Now empty nesters, we have an itch for living in a "destination" area, be it waterside or cityside. For admittedly shallow reasons, we want to live somewhere fun for us, and fun for future visitors so they can easily entertain themselves. That doesn't describe the practical but boring suburb we moved to so many years ago. So we go out on our weekend open-house jaunts, then come back to our modest ranch with single level living and think, "Ya know, this really ain't so bad." Torn.
Somehow I think there are many others here rowing that same boat.