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How about this fund?
Old 02-09-2007, 07:50 PM   #1
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How about this fund?

Would you ever invest in ING Russia? http://www.ingfunds.com/v2/investor/...60#Performance
I know it's high risk. But is the risk justified by the fantastic performance? My brother works in Moscow and has been touting the great business environment for several years. So far I have stayed away. I know also that a lot of businesses in Russia are run by gangsters. Not much transparency there.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-09-2007, 07:53 PM   #2
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Re: How about this fund?

How do you say "Not without a make my day law" in Russian?

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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-09-2007, 08:41 PM   #3
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Re: How about this fund?

I would look at the cost to own/sell fees and then possibly invest no more than I could live without. For me that would be 2 to 3 % of my portfolio at the max.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-10-2007, 06:55 PM   #4
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Re: How about this fund?

NYET!

I would just buy a good international fund and avoid the country specific ones. They will buy individual positions such as Gazprom or Norilsk, which you can as well, but this is not easy stuff for the pros, and individual investors like myself and 99% of the folks on this board will go broke gaming stocks and focused funds. IMHO an entire fund with positions limited to one country is truly a high risk gamble. If you are ER'd better to be the index.

My favorite managed International fund:
ARTIX
Artisan International

My largest International Fund position (and the one that makes better sense over the long term for me):
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund (VGTSX)

Your results will vary. Good Luck (Хорошее Везение)

8)
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-10-2007, 07:00 PM   #5
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Re: How about this fund?

Great return until Putin decides to nationalize the business and you are out of luck. He has a penchant for throwing succesful businessmen in jail and taking their money/business. I won't touch Russia.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-10-2007, 08:42 PM   #6
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Re: How about this fund?

Guilty as charged...........I have owned this fund since 2002...........but I recently took my cost basis plus 30% off the table............because Putin is getting weird..........

However, the 2.13% expense ratio would probably keep 99% of this board away anyway...........
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-10-2007, 09:28 PM   #7
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Great return until Putin decides to nationalize the business and you are out of luck. He has a penchant for throwing succesful businessmen in jail and taking their money/business. I won't touch Russia.
Oh ****! Hope Putin doesn't go after my brother!

Seriously though, I think I'll forget about this fund. My Oakmark International is doing well enough.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-10-2007, 09:56 PM   #8
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Re: How about this fund?

Seems like a very high risk in a non-transparent market that could easily lose 95% of its value overnight. I'd stay away.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-11-2007, 10:23 AM   #9
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Seems like a very high risk in a non-transparent market that could easily lose 95% of its value overnight. I'd stay away.
Really? 95% overnight?
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-11-2007, 11:13 AM   #10
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Re: How about this fund?

Hey, its possible...that guy has an 'easy' button...
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-11-2007, 11:53 AM   #11
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Really? 95% overnight?
yeah, you're right, I should have said 100%

Seriously, maybe not overnight, but in very short order you could lose a huge percentage of your investment. This fund is very high risk -with a 5.75% front LOAD, 2% ER, and ZERO dividend Yield. The 3 yr standard deviation is 27 - three and a half deviations and you are wiped out completely. In the period of 1997-98 the 'value' of $10,000 invested in this fund (actually the benchmark index - since this fund was not around then) dropped to roughly $2,000.00 - it took over 3 years to get back to 10K.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-11-2007, 11:54 AM   #12
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Hey, its possible...that guy has an 'easy' button...
I think you should invest everything you have in this one. :
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 10:29 AM   #13
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex

yeah, you're right, I should have said 100%

Seriously, maybe not overnight, but in very short order you could lose a huge percentage of your investment. This fund is very high risk -with a 5.75% front LOAD, 2% ER, and ZERO dividend Yield. The 3 yr standard deviation is 27 - three and a half deviations and you are wiped out completely. In the period of 1997-98 the 'value' of $10,000 invested in this fund (actually the benchmark index - since this fund was not around then) dropped to roughly $2,000.00 - it took over 3 years to get back to 10K.
And I think the risk can be handled.........as I said, I bought the fund in 2002, and have enjoyed making 40% plus the past 4 years. I recently took out my cost basis plus 30% of the gains I have made. Last week, I took out another 30% of my gains, so I now have reallocated my original cost basis in the fund (about $20K) plus 60% of my gains, and now only have 40% of my gains to let "ride".

It was a risk worth taking TO ME, not sure about anyone else..........
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 10:42 AM   #14
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Re: How about this fund?

Playing with house money is always fun!

Hey, if it's money you can afford to lose, it's always fun to gamble and it's got a better chance of paying off than the lotto. It's well know that it takes great risk to get great reward. I've played that game, and enjoyed it, but now I'm not in a place to allocate the brainpower or stress, so I'm a boring indexed, blananced, safely diversified guy.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 10:50 AM   #15
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Re: How about this fund?

I guess everythings fair game in asset allocation, and 'deep' emerging market funds like this one may be appropriate for a small amount of money for someone early in their accumulation phase. But if it ran up a lot i'd probably get out. I'd definitely be rebalancing it off the top every time it had an up year.

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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 11:04 AM   #16
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I guess everythings fair game in asset allocation, and 'deep' emerging market funds like this one may be appropriate for a small amount of money for someone early in their accumulation phase. But if it ran up a lot i'd probably get out. I'd definitely be rebalancing it off the top every time it had an up year.
Good advice.............I like ETF's a lot for my clients, but can't find an ETF that does what ING Russia does...........
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 11:11 AM   #17
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Re: How about this fund?

Good luck to you! There's more than one road to Dublin.

Personally, I'd rather go to Vegas - at least there I get a free cocktail and a show.
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 11:25 AM   #18
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Re: How about this fund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Good luck to you! There's more than one road to Dublin.

Personally, I'd rather go to Vegas - at least there I get a free cocktail and a show.
Touche'.....................most of my portfolio picks would bore everyone to tears...................
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Re: How about this fund?
Old 02-12-2007, 11:58 PM   #19
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Re: How about this fund?

These are a few funds which are in the same investible universe as INg Russia, along with their Expense ratios.

1. TRF - Templeton Russia and East European Fund Inc - ETF
ER - 1.91%; 5yr retunrs - 48.33%; Selling at 17% premium to NAV
2. CEE - The Central Europe and Russia Fund Inc
ER - 1.09%; 5Yr returns - 38.87%; Selling at 10% discount to NAV
3. LETRX - ING Funds Russia Fund - Mutual Fund
ER - 1.98% + Load of 5.75%; 5Yr returns - 41.28%;
4. TMRFX - World Funds Inc Third Millennium Russia Fund
ER - 2.75%; %yr Returns - 36.31%

Some of the funds above offer more country diversification that others - they invest in other eastern european countries etc. Also looking at the numbers above I don't see that ING Russia is head and shoulders above the other options. Both the ETF funds have lower ER and could be better condidates. FYI I do not like country specific investing and think that esp. in case of Emerging markets country risk is too high to include it as an asset class. EM index I think is the way to go. Also russia is a pretty big natural resources play which is highly volatile.

-h

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