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Old 01-22-2009, 09:53 PM   #21
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Yes. I was just teasing W2R. The word "amorous" was a euphemism to describe the state of mind of the attackers.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:04 PM   #22
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Let's not think this issue is going to improve - it will only get worse. It is estimated that the USA population will be 400m by 2050 a 70m increase and the world population will be 10 billion a 3B or so increase.

Probably the greatest bubble of them all is the population bubble - it has grown from 1B in 1910 to the est of 10 billion in 140 years.

This is one reason I'm not too worried about the real estate problem.

So, how bas is it in California? Not as bad as it will be.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:56 PM   #23
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What real estate crash?
Definitely not in Silicon Valley. The medium price of a home is over $800K.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:20 AM   #24
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Definitely not in Silicon Valley. The medium price of a home is over $800K.
And that is a piece of junk out in the middle of some former orchard. $800K likely would not buy you a garage in Palo Alto or Menlo Park, let alone in the hills up from these.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:05 AM   #25
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Let's not think this issue is going to improve - it will only get worse. It is estimated that the USA population will be 400m by 2050 a 70m increase and the world population will be 10 billion a 3B or so increase.

Probably the greatest bubble of them all is the population bubble - it has grown from 1B in 1910 to the est of 10 billion in 140 years.

This is one reason I'm not too worried about the real estate problem.

So, how bas is it in California? Not as bad as it will be.
Chill out dude, haven't you watched the full season of Startrek: The Next Generation + franchised movies?

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:23 AM   #26
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This is an issue that has been discussed extensively by the RV folks in the last several years -- various Google searches, such as this, will give you some idea.

Hawaii is, as Nords says, a special case but only in the sense of the weather. That combination of high-priced real estate and low wages is a growing problem everywhere -- the Ski Resorts of Colorado are examples of where the workers cannot afford to live where they work. (But there is no sleeping "on the beach" when it's 20 below.)

The dog I have in this fight has to do with the unintended consequences of these types of ordinances. I mentioned last week being unable to enjoy the National & State Parks in Hawaii because of the early evening closings -- I am sure that thinking will migrate to the mainland and won't that be fun. I should have also mentioned visiting a City Park (Botanical Garden) in the middle of Honolulu and finding only a single parking place. The rest of the slots were filled by vehicles used as temporary housing -- meaning that most of the people's possesions were spread on the ground around the vehicle and the many scruffy-looking individuals were not "visiting" the Park. I really had to convince myself to leave my vehicle there while I went inside --very uncomfortable feeling. Or that all of the Picnic Tables inside the park where occupied by sleeping individuals or groups in animated conversation.

But more importantly is the restrictions on where I can park my RV when on the road. Many Rest Stops on the major (mainland) highways, for example, forbid overnight stops -- I suppose someone believes it is safer for a drowsy driver to just keep on going.

Another example is Wal-Mart which has for many years had a reputation, in the RV community, for being a "Safe Harbor." Unfortunately, this is becoming a thing of the past because of local zoning laws -- Aurora, Colorado, for instance, has heavy fines for parking in a commercial parking lot for purposes other than shopping. (It should be noted that Wal Mart's Corporate policy has not changed -- they still welcome RV folks with open arms wherever they can.)

(Oh! I am getting way too serious... need more coffee.)
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:05 AM   #27
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Chill out dude, haven't you watched the full season of Startrek: The Next Generation + franchised movies?

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!
I think before they got to that time there was a period of time akin to feudalism.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:24 AM   #28
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Definitely not in Silicon Valley. The medium price of a home is over $800K.
Spanky,

But how much was the median price 2 years ago? Over 1MM, right?

Sam
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:32 PM   #29
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That was what I was thinking, too. Also, given the choice, I'd so much prefer to sleep out on the beach, with the sound of the surf and light breezes over me...
While your slumber is interspersed with the sounds of the squabbling families, the crying kids, the drunks with their breaking beer bottles & loud music in the parking lot, the barking guard dogs, the guy scavenging all the garbage cans for redeemable beverage containers, and the iceheads trashing the restrooms for scrap metal or fighting over the last hit. People use other parts of the beach for their bathroom needs because there's no way they're going into those restrooms. Until the night rains & tradewinds rip your shelter off its pegs into the shorebreak.

Unless, of course, you're in Disneyland Waikiki or Ala Moana. Then the beach is cleaned & raked each midwatch until not even a cigarette butt is left, and it's very very hard to find a homeless person sheltering themself in the area. But that's brought to you by local merchant's associations and the Hawaii Visitors & Conventions Bureau, which leaves the government homeless shelters responsible for the "real" Hawaii in Nanakuli, Waianae, Waialua, & Mokuleia...
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:42 PM   #30
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A few years ago I was in CA on business. The limo driver described to me how he lived in his camper parked at the local State Park. Lots of folks did this. Apparently you could not stay continuously in the park, so you had to leave one day a (year, month). This was accomplished by finding someone in a different State Park to trade that day with.

The limo drive was thinking of living on a boat that was permanently docked and not seaworthy, but the same kind of deal. Paying for a slip was less expensive than paying for an apartment.

So because the weather is nice for the most part in California, there will be people living in their cars no matter what the economy is doing.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:04 PM   #31
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So because the weather is nice for the most part in California, there will be people living in their cars no matter what the economy is doing.
I have a friend who lived in his Volvo wagon for over a year. Some of it was nice weather, some was horrible.

But good weather or bad, the sheer unhandiness and misery of living in a car is overwhelming. Constant rousings by cops, struggling to keep clean. what to do when you are sick-yuck! And he was well employed. He choose the car to save money to pay off some medical and credit card debt. He couldn't live with me because it was too far to his work.

And though we didn't talk about it much, I think cars are not the best place to have a woman friend over for a drink.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:13 PM   #32
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Spanky,

But how much was the median price 2 years ago? Over 1MM, right?

Sam
As Ha Ha says, $800K would not be able to buy a decent place in Palo Alto:
Date Medium price
1/05 1.8M
1/06 1.8M
1/07 1.8M
7/07 2.5M
11/08 1.8M

I guess if one had bought a house back in 7/07, he/she would have considered the decline as a bubble. Otherwise, the loss in value is minimal (if 7/07 is excluded).

Sunnyvale is more affordable (relative to Palo Alto):
1/05 700K
1/06 825K
1/07 750K
1/08 700K
11/08 650K

This shows that the decline is quite moderate.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:20 PM   #33
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I am fortunate to never have been in such dire straits, though my parents had some financial troubles in my late teen years.

I wonder how people couldn't save enough for a run-down camper parked in a slum RV park. How much does it cost in a park like that, if you pay monthly?
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:27 PM   #34
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As Ha Ha says, $800K would not be able to buy a decent place in Palo Alto:
Date Medium price
1/05 1.8M
1/06 1.8M
1/07 1.8M
7/07 2.5M
11/08 1.8M

I guess if one had bought a house back in 7/07, he/she would have considered the decline as a bubble. Otherwise, the loss in value is minimal (if 7/07 is excluded).
PALO ALTO, CA Real Estate Report for January 18 2009

The first graph says that the 90 days median price was 2.1MM in March 08, and 1.7MM today. 10 months difference.

Sam
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:51 PM   #35
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And that is a piece of junk out in the middle of some former orchard. $800K likely would not buy you a garage in Palo Alto or Menlo Park, let alone in the hills up from these.
Ha
East Palo Alto?
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:14 PM   #36
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East Palo Alto?
Perhaps you are not aware that East Palo Alto is its own incorporated city, and not part of Palo Alto. I didn't say that $800k wouldn't buy something in East Palo Alto

Would you want to live there? The weather is very similar to Palo Alto .

Ha
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:18 PM   #37
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Perhaps you are not aware that East Palo Alto is its own incorporated city, and not part of Palo Alto. I didn't say that $800k wouldn't buy something in East Palo Alto

Would you want to live there? The weather is very similar to Palo Alto .

Ha
I am aware (from S.F.) and it was tongue in cheek which from your reaction I should have kept in check - next time I do something like that I'll ..weather is the same and conveniently located on 101. No I would rather live here on the tundra where homes are heavily discounted from even EPA prices and the murder rate here is like the temp right now - 6 below zero
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:36 PM   #38
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I am aware (from S.F.) and it was tongue in cheek which from your reaction I should have kept in check - next time I do something like that I'll ..weather is the same and conveniently located on 101. No I would rather live here on the tundra where homes are heavily discounted from even EPA prices and the murder rate here is like the temp right now - 6 below zero
The weather is rarely the same from block to block. An earlier thread reminded me of the risks of absolute statements, so I was trying to avoid them.

Absolute statements are more colorful, which I like. But at the same time I strive for accuracy, so there is a tension.

PS: Danny, I'm sorry for being short. Some unpleasant real world conversations today.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:57 PM   #39
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The weather is rarely the same from block to block. An earlier thread reminded me of the risks of absolute statements, so I was trying to avoid them.

Absolute statements are more colorful, which I like. But at the same time I strive for accuracy, so there is a tension.

PS: Danny, I'm sorry for being short. Some unpleasant real world conversations today.
Ha
Ha, not a problem at all. hope the conversations get more pleasant....true about the bay area's micro-climates I suppose since EPA is down closer to the water it would be different than up towards the hills? I lived in SF and BA but not the Peninsula from 67 - 94 - temp differences between the city and areas north & east were dramatic. much milder in SF although it did snow in 73 I think Van Morrison wrote a song about it...
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:19 AM   #40
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I lived in SF and BA but not the Peninsula from 67 - 94 - temp differences between the city and areas north & east were dramatic. much milder in SF ..
The best climate in the Bay Area, IMHO, is Alameda/Oakland. We looked at some houses when we were there during Xmas last year. A typical 1,400 sq. ft house in Alameda is about $750K. A 4,000 sq. ft house in Oakland hills (with a view of the Bay) is almost 1.5M. More affordable homes can be found in Fairfield or Vegaville (40 miles north of Oakland). A 2,400 sq ft house (with a view of mountains) at a golf community is about $400K. DW liked the model homes but would not consider either city as a place for retirement because of congested traffic and heavy Hispanic population. Anyway, I am still looking for an ideal place for retirement.
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