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12-28-2012, 12:23 PM
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#21
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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Mine is far more complex than I would like. IMO you can do very well (be adequately diversified) with 3 to 5 funds.
When I first set mine up, I did the careful slice-and-dice - various foreign and US categories, small-cap, mid-cap, large-cap, REIT, different bond funds. I think I went overboard, and a retirement portfolio really doesn't need to be that complex. But in a taxable account, once you've selected and invested in your chosen funds, changing funds around has expensive taxable consequences (assuming you've had gains!).
My portfolio has done pretty well over the years and the diversification has helped the performance, IMO, because it has done well compared to the balanced funds I use as benchmarks. So the complexity is not the end of the world, but it does mean a big spreadsheet and tracking lots of distributions to get everything rebalanced.
Fewer funds is better (provided they are well chosen).
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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12-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
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I think we need a definition of complexity. Does it mean the type and diversity of assets, or the number of funds and other products, or the number of institutions involved?
On the one hand, I include "alternative" investments such as income real estate, precious metals, venture capital and a target return fund (hybrid), but on the other hand, the only conventional funds on the list are a corporate bond fund and an emerging market index. All other equities are individual. And no, I am not going to list them all. But asset allocation to equities is now only approximately 40% of my portfolio. And what about leverage? I do have a few mortgages on investment real estate. Debt is no more than 5% of assets.
Yeah, I suppose that's complex.
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12-28-2012, 12:52 PM
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#23
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 518
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You are all awesome, thank you! These posts are like presents under the tree.
We let FIDO actively manage our taxable account this year, and they are doing fine, but I'm ready to take the reins and save the fee. Fortunately they've done a nice job of harvesting capital losses so the rebalancing into my AA shouldn't be too painful, tax wise.
I'll check out the link and the other recommended books. I admit I am leaning towards a portfolio of 5 funds or so, but I find myself wondering if 10 would be more precise... Ad therefore better.... Probably not worth the hassle in the long run.
One more question if you are still feeling generous with the knowledge...
1) Do any of you bother with tax loss harvesting? Selling after a sizeable market loss and rolling into a similar fund? Is it worth it?
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12-28-2012, 12:54 PM
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#24
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 518
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[edited to remove duplicate text] - Ignore.
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12-28-2012, 01:00 PM
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#25
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 241
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Seven mutual funds, mostly in index funds (Vanguard 500, Schwab 500, Schwab small cap index, short term muni bond fund, etc) I keep a small portion of my overall portfolio, about 10%, to pick individual stocks and/or bonds to try and beat the indices. So far I have only proven to myself that I can't beat them....but it is fun to try, and I haven't lost money (yet). AA is 65% stock, 20% bond, 15% cash (holding more cash than usual, looking for good opportunities)
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12-28-2012, 01:03 PM
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#26
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 241
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[
1) Do any of you bother with tax loss harvesting? Selling after a sizeable market loss and rolling into a similar fund? Is it worth it?[/QUOTE]
Just did some this week. Dumped some of my really bad ideas....
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12-28-2012, 01:47 PM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortInSeattle
I'll check out the link and the other recommended books. I admit I am leaning towards a portfolio of 5 funds or so, but I find myself wondering if 10 would be more precise... And therefore better.... Probably not worth the hassle in the long run.
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It's just not clear that one gains anything by the "precision" of owning more funds. Probably just more complex calculations with no obvious benefit. If you aim for 5, or even 6 if you have to, much better than 10, IMO.
The folks managing with just 3 funds - usually at least one of them is a balanced fund, and the other two are there to add some missing diversification or to change the AA of the core balanced fund. Just so you realize.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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12-28-2012, 01:54 PM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortInSeattle
I admit I am leaning towards a portfolio of 5 funds or so, but I find myself wondering if 10 would be more precise... Ad therefore better.... Probably not worth the hassle in the long run.
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I could be completely comfortable at 5 funds if not for tax efficiency/placement and tilts. And I will simplify in the years ahead, but like audrey mentioned, I have to move slowly to avoid capital gains.
My 11-12 fund portfolio has tracked pretty close to Wellington over the past ten years, basically the same returns with slightly less volatility (my equity % is lower). If not for tax placement and limiting dividends (capital appreciation is better for us at present), I could have arguably done just as well with 1 fund.
You've probably already seen these but if not, food for thought (note they mostly resemble each other in many ways):
Lazy Portfolios - Bogleheads
Invest Simple with Lazy Portfolios - MarketWatch.com
Why Wall Street Hates the Lazy Portfolios Strategy - SmartMoney.com
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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12-28-2012, 02:54 PM
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#29
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,356
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I guess I'm the odd one out here, with about 75 different holdings (4 funds and the rest individual stocks) across 8 different accounts. It's a lot of work keeping up with it all, but I enjoy it so I just consider it one of my hobbies.
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12-28-2012, 03:12 PM
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#30
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 9,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister
I guess I'm the odd one out here, with about 75 different holdings (4 funds and the rest individual stocks) across 8 different accounts. It's a lot of work keeping up with it all, but I enjoy it so I just consider it one of my hobbies.
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Mine is nothing that complex, but I too enjoy investing in and following individual stocks. Have a few ETF's and CLF's for target areas and a good chunk of CD's. In time I do plan to simplify, going with 4-5 funds along with CD's.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Investing style: Full time wuss.
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12-28-2012, 03:15 PM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
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I am not into all this simplification stuff because we have multiple accounts and multiple accounts mean multiple funds. That written, there is a simple theme to our asset allocation and most of the accounts have one fund in them and no transactions. The remaining few accounts have a few transactions in them.
If our investments were all held in a single Roth IRA, our asset allocation would have 6 funds in them:
1. Total US Stock Market Index
2. Total International Stock Market Index
3. US Small cap value index
4. International Small cap index
5. REIT index
6. Bond Index
Our portfolio performance is better than the performance of Vanguard Wellington this year, but we have more fixed income (and lower risk) than Wellington.
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12-28-2012, 03:25 PM
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#32
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,657
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Quote:
1) Do any of you bother with tax loss harvesting? Selling after a sizeable market loss and rolling into a similar fund? Is it worth it?
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I do sometimes, but for accounts that I am still accumulating I don't have many opportunities to do so. I have considered sometimes that I might be better off to invest in funds with similar objectives, so that if a tax loss opportunity comes up that I can tax loss harvest. With the new accounting rules and identifying specific lots, I think this will be a lot easier in the future.
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12-28-2012, 03:41 PM
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#33
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
SiS, 90%+ of my portfolio is in three funds: Wellesley, Wellington and a short-term bond fund.
Reason: Like me, it's simple.
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Similar here, but add in Target date funds in mine and DW's IRA's
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
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12-28-2012, 04:27 PM
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#34
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortInSeattle
....1) Do any of you bother with tax loss harvesting? Selling after a sizeable market loss and rolling into a similar fund? Is it worth it?
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Absolutely. Yes.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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12-28-2012, 05:54 PM
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#35
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,555
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60 stock 40 bonds
Vanguard total stock
Vanguard total bonds
Vanguard international
DW has a severance package paid monthly and we are restricted in where it can be distributed, so we have a similar set up with Oppenheimer C shares as well. That money gets transferred, though, after a year (the 1%!backload expires) into cheaper Vanguard funds.
__________________
"Growing old is no excuse for growing up."
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12-28-2012, 06:45 PM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,720
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Code:
Plan Fund Name Overall AA
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
403b Guaranteed Interest Account 4.51%
403b EQ/Equity 500 Index 8.33%
403b EQ/Small Company Index 2.04%
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 4 0 3 B
SEP Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Inv 12.25%
SEP Vanguard High-Yield Corporate Fund Inv 2.82%
SEP Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Inv 5.41%
SEP Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund 7.02%
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * S E P
401k Small/Mid Cap Index Eq Fund 11.17%
401k MSCI EAFE Indexed Equity 6.56%
401k MSCI EM Indexed Equit 4.18%
401k Commodities Fund 0.99%
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 4 0 1 K
S-Pen. Retirement Plan Survivor's Benefit 15.85%
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * P E N S
Roth-T Vanguard International Value Fund 3.01%
Roth-S Vanguard Small-Cap Value Index Fund 2.64%
Roth-S Wellesley Income Fund Inv(VWINX) 3.24%
Roth-T Vanguard REIT Index Fund Investor Shares 4.30%
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * R O T H
T-Free Vanguard NJ Long-Term Tax-Exempt Fund Inv 4.23%
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T A X A B L E H
We are victims of circumstance - both working.
So 16 funds, with some overlap.
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12-28-2012, 10:24 PM
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#37
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bushnell
Posts: 607
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25% VTI and US dividend growth stocks
15% small cap fund
15% international fund
30% bond funds and iBonds
10% REITS and REIT fund
5% cash
About half the cash is current year's spending which I refill with dividends and interest as I go along for spending next year and so on.
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12-29-2012, 05:44 AM
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#38
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 4,342
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I recently changed my AA. It now represents pretty much what I am going to be sticking with for a while. The following is the total of both taxable and tax-deferred accounts, with the funds allocated to maximize tax-efficiency (bond funds in the tax-deferred accounts).
38% VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock)
17% VTIAX (Vanguard Total Intl)
37% VBTLX (Vangaurd Total Bond)
3% in individual equities (for fun, and will probably phase out over the long term)
5% in cash
I don't have the interest/ability/level of knowledge to maintain a more complex portfolio, so the above works for me. The proof of the pudding will come in 10-20 years if it is still working well for me
__________________
Contentedly ER, with 3 furry friends (now, sadly, 1).
Planning my escape to the wide open spaces in my campervan (with my remaining kitty, of course!)
On a mission to become the world's second most boring man.
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12-29-2012, 05:50 AM
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#39
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,733
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The good news is that I only have 7 ETFs/mutual funds.
The bad news is I have 5 individual bonds, 30+ stocks, 9 Master Limited Partnerships, a handful of options, 4 rental properties, a few Ibonds, and some CDs. Angel investments in: a Japanese tax shelter, health care technology company, an internet ecommerce company, a company that installs PV systems for non profits, and an Angel investment mutual fund.
So I am pretty sure my portfolio isn't simple.
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12-29-2012, 07:40 AM
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#40
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 883
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Vanguard Total Stock Market Index
Vanguard Total Int'l Stock Index
Vanguard Intermed-term Bond Index
Vanguard REIT Index
Vanguard Wellesley
__________________
"It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating". Oscar Wilde
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