How did you handle the period from FI to FIRE?

[enjoyinglife102]

One thing I would be cautious about that I don't see mentioned often is that you could easily work the next few years and end up with a portfolio that has a much lower value than today. Sequence of return risk in retirement and/or leading up to retirement is a killer. I became very conservative the last few years of corporate life for exactly that reason. Missing upside was a lot easier for me to accept than struggling to get to the finish line and realize I did it all to now have less money.

 

[Danmar]

For me reaching a FI didn't happen at a moment in time. Was a more gradual realization that I was "there". "There" moved a bit over this period as well. If having $x dollars meant I was "there", wouldn't if be better to have 1.5$x?

This happend in my early 50's and one thing happened for sure. It became more difficult to get motivated at work. Took about 3 years to effect retirement at 56.

 

[googily]

I'm there now, and I fluctuate wildly between thinking that it's just fine to keep going to a remarkably well-paying job where I don't really do all that much versus trying to figure out if my desire for "flexibility" beyond what I have (more vacation time, long weekends, etc) is worth upsetting the current apple cart.

The biggest problem I have is *knowing* I can walk at any time, because while some days that allows me to let everything just slide off my back, on other days if things are aggravating and I'm loaded for bear I have to be very careful that I don't lose my temper and just pull the rip cord right there.

 

[ikubak]

Like a lot of other people, I felt much more at ease expressing my opinion and taking time off for things I want to do. I frequently take an hour or two off to play tennis during the day and I take longer vacations than I used to. During this time, I also downsized my job within the same employer to a less stressful job with (usually) plenty of time to read and research my own tax issues and RE issues. I consider it a semi-retirement and will be wrapping it up at the end of the year. It's been a good transition time.

 

[someguy]

One thing I would be cautious about that I don't see mentioned often is that you could easily work the next few years and end up with a portfolio that has a much lower value than today. Sequence of return risk in retirement and/or leading up to retirement is a killer. I became very conservative the last few years of corporate life for exactly that reason. Missing upside was a lot easier for me to accept than struggling to get to the finish line and realize I did it all to now have less money.

Maybe I don't fully understand sequence of returns risk. Assuming that one doesn't spend any part of the nest egg during those few extra years of work and doesn't make any AA shifts, isn't it mathematically impossible to end up with a worse outcome than retiring a few years earlier? Can you explain?

 

[enjoyinglife102]

Simple, here's an example. You bank on stocks returning say 8% annually but those last two years of working stocks tank and suddenly your million dollar portfolio is worth 700k. Add say the 100k of additional savings over two years but now your portfolio is worth 800k, not the million of two years ago. Obviously that can happen at any time and in this case you will end up with 100k more than if you stopped working but for me, I would have had a tougher time dealing with struggling through work all that time and ending up having less money.

 

[someguy]

Simple, here's an example. You bank on stocks returning say 8% annually but those last two years of working stocks tank and suddenly your million dollar portfolio is worth 700k. Add say the 100k of additional savings over two years but now your portfolio is worth 800k, not the million of two years ago. Obviously that can happen at any time and in this case you will end up with 100k more than if you stopped working but for me, I would have had a tougher time dealing with struggling through work all that time and ending up having less money.

I must be totally dense or we must live in different universes! In your first scenario (retire 2 years earlier), you're actually at $620K NW (assuming 40K/year expenses). That requires either a nerve-wracking 6.5% WR or going back to work having been out of it for 2 years. Versus being at $800K NW and (critically) still having a solid job and having the clear option to wait out the downturn?

I'm saying I understand that basic concept of sequence of returns risk, but how would that ever logically translate into what I took as an implied recommendation to hurry up and retire before a big crash happens? I think that only makes sense in atypical situations -- for example if someone necessarily had a lot of NW in a single stock or direct equity that could only be unlocked and/or diversified upon retirement.

 

[CoolChange]

Still Struggling with OMY Myself

No insights to help; just giving you more evidence that you are not alone.

I have been FI (net worth currently over 65X expected expenses) for a while but continue to put in my time.

+1 It was a very good time in my career. I felt free to speak up and say the things the entire team was thinking but that management or clients did not want to hear.... after all, the worst that could happen was that they would fire me and so what....... and they loved the candor and I was in more demand than ever.

This was me a few years ago; now, I no longer care enough to make many waves.

I don't think there is anything that is as easy as I have and pays me close. If I retire, I have to retire for good and never think about working again.

Ditto.

The biggest thing I do different is I minimize headaches at work. For example, I had a client who became difficult while still owing a few bucks on an unfinished project last week. I fired them and told them I'd write off the balance owed. Not worth the money to deal with headache people. Life is too short. Now I have time to come on here and read all of your great success stories!

This is where I am now. I have actually told my leadership that I am ready to retire any time they want to eliminate my position. It is amazing how much busy work has disappeared from my life.

I'm there now, and I fluctuate wildly between thinking that it's just fine to keep going to a remarkably well-paying job where I don't really do all that much versus trying to figure out if my desire for "flexibility" beyond what I have (more vacation time, long weekends, etc) is worth upsetting the current apple cart.

The biggest problem I have is *knowing* I can walk at any time, because while some days that allows me to let everything just slide off my back, on other days if things are aggravating and I'm loaded for bear I have to be very careful that I don't lose my temper and just pull the rip cord right there.

Again, ditto.

 

[flyingaway]

Like a lot of other people, I felt much more at ease expressing my opinion and taking time off for things I want to do. I frequently take an hour or two off to play tennis during the day and I take longer vacations than I used to. During this time, I also downsized my job within the same employer to a less stressful job with (usually) plenty of time to read and research my own tax issues and RE issues. I consider it a semi-retirement and will be wrapping it up at the end of the year. It's been a good transition time.

I am doing just differently. When I liked my work and wanted to do something, I spoke my opinion loudly and forcefully. Now I am silent and don't say anything as I don't care anymore.

 

[Mdlerth]

Savory prose

...on other days if things are aggravating and I'm loaded for bear I have to be very careful that I don't lose my temper and just pull the rip cord right there.

This is so colorfully written I keep reading it out loud to myself over and over! The clever wordplay is one of my favorite features of this forum. Good job, googily.

 

[nash031]

Simple, here's an example. You bank on stocks returning say 8% annually but those last two years of working stocks tank and suddenly your million dollar portfolio is worth 700k. Add say the 100k of additional savings over two years but now your portfolio is worth 800k, not the million of two years ago. Obviously that can happen at any time and in this case you will end up with 100k more than if you stopped working but for me, I would have had a tougher time dealing with struggling through work all that time and ending up having less money.

I think anyone would have an even tougher time retiring, watching the portfolio take that hit, and not have the option to continue working. For many, that means simply working until they have that safety net where if the worst possible sequence of returns happens, they're comfortable.

Is it hard to watch your port shrink while you're still working to make the finish line? I'm sure it is. The alternative is worse. That's why establishing a realistic finish line in the first place is so important.

If your expectations are set that you need to get to $1M to retire and make ends meet, and you drop to $700K, that's going to be a hell of a lot more stressful than knowing you need $1M to make ends meet, set your goal at $1.3M and then it matters a lot less. Market tanks 30% right before you pull the trigger, and you're still good to go.

 

[JustCurious]

I must be totally dense or we must live in different universes! In your first scenario (retire 2 years earlier), you're actually at $620K NW (assuming 40K/year expenses). That requires either a nerve-wracking 6.5% WR or going back to work having been out of it for 2 years. Versus being at $800K NW and (critically) still having a solid job and having the clear option to wait out the downturn?

I think the assumption is that when you retire, you "lock in" the gains in your portfolio by going to a more conservative AA than when you are working. That way, in the first scenario, you would lock in the conservative AA at the $1 million mark, so it would not tank as much after you retire.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I worked for the state and some people would slack off their last 2 years knowing they would retire before being fired. That was not my style and I worked hard until I retired. I love teaching my uni class but it is taught online so it does not prevent me from traveling as long as I have internet. They asked me to add a 2nd in-person class and I said no. One online class is perfect.

 

[SumDay]

I have become VERY vocal about the idiocy that abounds at my megacorp job of 30+ years. We just had a big RIF, and darn it, I was hoping my mouth would land me on the list. But noooooo, I'm getting all kinds of praise and thanks for my honesty and ideas for fixing the issues, even talk of a promotion. I'm pulling the plug next year, so more responsibility and conference calls happen to be the last things I'm looking for. I may have to start wearing a muzzle and quit caring.

 

[Carpediem]

I have become VERY vocal about the idiocy that abounds at my megacorp job of 30+ years. We just had a big RIF, and darn it, I was hoping my mouth would land me on the list. But noooooo, I'm getting all kinds of praise and thanks for my honesty and ideas for fixing the issues, even talk of a promotion. I'm pulling the plug next year, so more responsibility and conference calls happen to be the last things I'm looking for. I may have to start wearing a muzzle and quit caring.

I too have become more vocal and express my opinions about the stupidness of some of the decisions made. Of course, my co-workers love it because it's exactly what they'd LIKE to say. Even my boss seems to appreciate it and I'm starting to feel like they're relying on me more, which isn't what I want. This 'phenomenon' reminds of the Seinfeld episode when George kept trying to get fired and instead, he kept getting promoted.

 

[CoolRich59]

One option I'm looking into is seeing if I can work part time.

I had never considered it until recently. I'm a consultant and so I'm always at the client's office and never see any of my coworkers.

But I emailed a couple and was surprised to learn a few have been able to do so. In fact, I was very surprised to learn that the most senior guy works part time exclusively.

I think going part time would also do wonders for my sanity. Who knows - I might stay at for a couple of more years! [emoji1]

 

[CoolRich59]

I keep mine on one of my phone's home screens:

Oh, I like that!

 

[Souschef]

I worked to keep health insurance for my brain injured wife. Whe she passed away,
I was there another 2 years because i had nothing better to do, and it upped my 401K plus profit sharing.
I married my present wife, and waited until January of the following year to get my profit sharing, then pulled the plug.
Life is good!

 

[Floridatennisplayer]

I love this place. I posted a similar thread last March. I could do it now, but with no health care until Medicare now 62 1/2 I hate the thought of cutting into padding my goal. We had a national meeting last month, I just couldn't bear the thought of going...always a big waste. So....I blew it off. Told them I had the flu. I just don't care anymore.

They keep piling on more and more emails, new initiatives, more babysitting..plan on putting up with it until 64, bite the bullet and buy health insurance for a year. Trying to stay sane until then.

 

[brucethebroker]

I have become VERY vocal about the idiocy that abounds at my megacorp job of 30+ years. We just had a big RIF, and darn it, I was hoping my mouth would land me on the list. But noooooo, I'm getting all kinds of praise and thanks for my honesty and ideas for fixing the issues, even talk of a promotion. I'm pulling the plug next year, so more responsibility and conference calls happen to be the last things I'm looking for. I may have to start wearing a muzzle and quit caring.

Why not fully test your theory Walk into the office of the big boss and tell him what you REALLY think of him You may get promoted!

 

[athena53]

I was full speed ahead up till my last day. Ironically, the project I was assigned was one of the most interesting things I'd ever done (give me a big pile o' data, tell me to tease interesting information out of it and make some pretty charts, tell me to move it from Excel to SQL to Qlikview and learn the latter two, and I'm happy as a clam). Too bad the politics sucked.

The first time I realized I was close to FI, my company was acquired. I saw a lot of good people panic and jump ship because they didn't want to risk being let go. I was 53 at the time, with enough resources that I knew I could survive a few months of unemployment if it happened, so I stayed. It worked out well and I stayed there for another 6 years. It was good to have the resources to allow me to take that chance.

 

[dunkelblau]

I crossed into FI territory by what most here would consider a typical metric back around Y2K, but at that time my own idea of "enough" was considerably more, so I stayed on the job. Spending over a decade in a job I disliked from day one had prompted my sprint to the finish line.

But the 2008-2009 stock market excursion made me glad I still collected a paycheck, and maybe it was because of that security blanket that I purchased more shares then than I would have otherwise? Even at the trough I was still solidly FI, so I decided I'd stay in coastal California. And work was getting more interesting.

A health scare five years ago prompted me to take a buyout package, but to my surprise all the free time quickly grew uncomfortable, so I accepted an offer to stay on with some changes I wanted involving schedule, work location, and most importantly, work content. I didn't expect this deal to make any difference, but management convinced me to at least give it a try.

Since that time it's been OMY after OMY, life's as good as it gets (at least with respect to work/life balance), so I've become ambivalent about RE. Oddly enough the obscure corner I focused on purely out of personal interest five years ago has grown mainstream to our business, so my job security is maxed out at the moment. Not that it matters, anything happens I don't feel like dealing with and I'm done.

So I guess in my case hitting FI probably prolonged my career because it turned out my attitude towards work changed once I gained control over the parameters. I suppose if I knew it would come out this way, my FI sprint would never have happened, but since it's a rare outcome, I can't say I should have saved differently.

 

[someguy]

I think the assumption is that when you retire, you "lock in" the gains in your portfolio by going to a more conservative AA than when you are working. That way, in the first scenario, you would lock in the conservative AA at the $1 million mark, so it would not tank as much after you retire.

You might be right but that can be done with or without retiring in the majority of situations. That's also basically timing the market.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

I'm pretty FI now and have enough to replicate my take home pay (lots of deduction off my paycheck). But am looking to work another 5 years to hit the numbers I've laid out for added security and to allow for extended retirement goals.

In some ways, staying motivated is kind of tough. However, I would feel disappointed if I don't reach my final target numbers. With the project management work I do, I also don't want to let people down but it is stressful.

I don't really feel more emboldened to speak out a work. However, we already have a pretty good environment where people can generally speak freely but you still got to speak with a little tact and respect.

 

[flyingaway]

OP here. Currently, we plan to retire in two years at 55, with a few conditions: (1) my son gets out of college and is gainfully employed, (2) the market is not lower than it is, (3) there is a reliable place to buy health insurance, (4) we are healthy.
I don't know what we may do in two years. But I think I can handle my work for two more years.