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Old 01-02-2011, 10:28 AM   #81
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The percentages I quoted were "after tax" percentages as I have already calculated what goes to the tax man. (liquid net worth up 13.8%, managed portfolio of stocks and equities up 14.18%, CD interest at 5%) So...am happy with this since the tax man has already been paid for the most part.
..... 20% of assets are in tax deferred because...I haven't found an annuity I will buy...and can only put about $20K into Simple IRA each year .
Messed around with a speculative stock and it's options this year and while I made a good $25K on these speculations, I need more confidence to handle the rest of my own money...
Some of ya'lls percentages are outstanding and will be looking at some of the funds used. Congrats everyone!!
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:18 PM   #82
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Looks like our net worth (including mortgage paydown) was up 18.9%. Figuring performance is a little trickier, but adjusting for new constributions and withdrawals in a manner similar to what Audrey suggests our portfolio returned 20.9%. Started the year 61% equity, 31.5% FI and 7.5% other (commodities and options). Ended the year with 75.5% equities, 18.4% FI and 6% other (merger arb funds and options). A couple more years like this and I will be free.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:12 PM   #83
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Up 13.6%, allocation is 70/30
Exactly the same for me.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:43 PM   #84
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Since folks are using the formulas I posted, I thought I would go ahead and give you a full blown example that handles both withdrawals and additions during the year. Again - this is a rough approximation, but IMO a reasonable one.

So the total formula is basically

%ROI = [(final value + withdrawals during the year)/(starting value + additions during the year) - 1] x 100

Below is a sample ROI report of the type that Quicken generates and you can see how they are applying the formula.

Audrey
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:22 PM   #85
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Quicken investing report says I'm up 23% overall for 2010.
If I look at my net worth (in Quicken) for end of 2009 vs end of 2010 I'm up 41% (SO much better).
I have no idea why these numbers are so different but I like either one... Both generated by Quicken...

I switched in August or so from MS Money to Quicken - it pulled all the old data.

Taxes are not considered here: 2009 already paid, 2010 I'll get a refund on what I've paid, so they really don't need to be addressed. This is only on investments, not things like the house. I never entered anything but investments into either program.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:26 PM   #86
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Very conservative 11% overall..... 53% stock 47% bonds

Plan to move more to equities in 2011 maybe 60/40
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:39 PM   #87
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Somewhat conservative, DW's IRA is 65% VG Wellesley & 35% VG Star funds. I hold most of my bonds in the Federal TSP G fund which is very safe but not much return. Our total portfolio not counting paid off home (mixing before & after taxed funds ) is up 11.2% for the year including paying for younger sons college which should end in another year. For 2008 it was down 18.8% and for 2009 up 18%. Retired in March 2008, keeping an eye on things but still spending away according to plan.
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Old 01-02-2011, 04:30 PM   #88
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Up 8.5%. 40% stocks, 60% bonds. 1.3 million total right now, need 1.5 to FIRE i think. Hope to get there in 3 years. Following the Bogle method, don't aim higher than what you need...
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Old 01-02-2011, 04:55 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
Since folks are using the formulas I posted, I thought I would go ahead and give you a full blown example that handles both withdrawals and additions during the year. Again - this is a rough approximation, but IMO a reasonable one.

So the total formula is basically

%ROI = [(starting value + additions during the year)/(final value + withdrawals during the year) - 1] x 100

Audrey
i was thrilled to see your formulas because i had a crazy year. i paid off my mortgage and drew money from different places, some money (2 small inheritances) came in and went out in the same month. i have no idea how to calc my return for the year or my withdrawal rate, normally i have no money in and a small amount out and i seem to be able to figure it out.

audrey,

are you sure this formula is correct? the final value was 1st in another formula now it is the starting value that is 1st. i plugged in some make believe numbers and i got a negative result when i expected a positive.

ex -

[(start with $100 + $10 additions) / (final value of $125 + withdrawals of $5) -1] X 100 = -15.38

shouldn't this example have a positive result? ex -

[(final value of $125 + withdrawals of $5) / (start with $100 + $10 additions) -1] X 100 = +18.18%?

thanks!
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:27 PM   #90
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audrey,

are you sure this formula is correct? the final value was 1st in another formula now it is the starting value that is 1st. i plugged in some make believe numbers and i got a negative result when i expected a positive.
Oops! - sorry - I had the numerator and denominator inverted. I fixed it above. Thanks for catching it quickly while I could still edit.

NOTE: In a bad year you can get a negative result!

Audrey
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:28 PM   #91
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But that formula doesn't take the timing of the investments/withdrawals into account, right? That can be very important, yes?

In any case, I must be doing something wrong, since I got 10.33% and my allocation started the year at 54% stock (ended at 58%). The stock stuff is in things like Total Stock and the bond stuff in Total Bond and GNMA. Why are you guys getting higher returns?
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:43 PM   #92
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But that formula doesn't take the timing of the investments/withdrawals into account, right? That can be very important, yes?
How important? If you are first starting out and your portfolio balance is small compared to your contributions - sure. But if your contributions and withdrawals are not large compared to the portfolio (a few percent), then their influence is small and this formula should be "good enough" for comparative purposes.

Anyway - the other options are a LOT more work, and are still approximations. If you really wanted to be more accurate you could break the calc into monthly or quarterly chunks and then figure out how to combine the monthly/quarterly ROIs to get an annualized ROI.

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Old 01-02-2011, 05:51 PM   #93
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Well, let's not get too carried away with computing return to several digits.

I am now fretting that when the market opens again, it may just easily wipe out 1 percent of my stash in a single day. And then, like in the past, when an entire week's trading was down every single day, the pain was just unbearable. So much for my bragging here of my 2010 return.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:55 PM   #94
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then their influence is small and this formula should be "good enough" for comparative purposes.
Right, got it.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:57 PM   #95
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Well, let's not get too carried away with computing return to several digits.

I am now fretting that when the market opens again, it may just easily wipe out 1 percent of my stash in a single day. And then, like in the past, when an entire week's trading was down every single day, the pain was just unbearable.
No worries, med's are staying cool in the frig waiting on a rainy day. Well.....I don't let them run past the expiration date.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:59 PM   #96
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What do you have to worry about, my man? What's this 25% AA in equities? No one can fool me. I still have good memory, and I remember who says what.
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:05 PM   #97
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But that formula doesn't take the timing of the investments/withdrawals into account, right? That can be very important, yes?

In any case, I must be doing something wrong, since I got 10.33% and my allocation started the year at 54% stock (ended at 58%). The stock stuff is in things like Total Stock and the bond stuff in Total Bond and GNMA. Why are you guys getting higher returns?
I dunno. I have 58%, mostly total stock market, plus some international (VEU) and small cap value (VBR), and bonds split between a TIPS fund and intermediate term bonds, and I got 9.51% for return. Which is in line with my expectations, and I am happy with.

Edit: I just realized that I accidentally included the Jan 1 check to DD's law school in the 2010 numbers. With that factored out, the return was 10.26%. T-Al and I probably have similar portfolios and withdrawal rates (modulo that pesky college drain fund.)
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:56 PM   #98
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I will use what Vanguard calculated even though it is not the whole portfolio....

16.1% return...


I will have to take a look at the 401s that are out there later...
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:50 PM   #99
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Good exercise (and interesting numbers from others).

Value of portfolio is up 17.1% Jan 1, 2010 to Jan 1, 2011. But that's mixed up with new savings and everyday cash flow.

Factor in new savings (and assuming we've lived within net paycheck for the year) we'd be around 9.5-10 percent.

If we spent as much above net paycheck as I think we may have (haven't added that up yet) and factor that in as withdrawals, we'd be more like 12.5% overall.


Allocation included in above is:

a. SP 500 Inx & US LC growth (18.04%)
b. US large cap value (7.88%)
c. US mid cap (3.88%)
d. US small cap (5.50%)
e. US small cap value (4.84%)
f. REIT (4.06%)
g. International LC (6.46%)
h. International value (6.83%)
i. International SC (4.24%)
j. Emerging Markets (4.06%)
k. US Bonds (7.81%)
l. Global bonds (2.88%)
m. Short term within funds (2.00%)
n. Loan.receivable./ Life Ins.CV (9.86%)
o. Cash (11.65%)

Looking to do something better with cash and perhaps consolidating some of the slice and dicing going forward.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:59 AM   #100
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It did just fine.

I had a long post readied to post when I decided it just doesn't matter.
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