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Old 10-24-2011, 11:03 AM   #41
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I was thinking about your rather strong comment, not with respect to Mulligan but more about this general situation of relkationships between unmarried but long term partners. I don't think that relationships are so cut and dried that a couple should either get married or stay out of one another's extra-bed lives. Many of us are single, but consider that we are in long term relationships, or at least in relationships that we want to be long term. If someone can respectfully share knowledge with his/her partner, isn't that better than just going on down the road? Compatible partners are not so common that we can afford to be extremely choosey about everything. If you love someone, and given your belief system feel that your partner's approach to some area of life is far from effective, shouldn't you speak up?

I feel that partners routinely attempt to influence one another on many fronts, and without doing that and submitting to that, unless we are very lucky we are likely to spend most of our time alone.

I know that I would strongly prefer my partner to give me direction in some area that she seemed to know more than I, than for her to just disappear from my life in fear and frustration. These things can always be discussed.

Ha
To me, marriage is a financial arrangement (among many other things, of course). So I understand where BarbaraBell is coming from in that sense.

But your point is very well taken as well. Unmarried partners do care about one another and do not want to see the misery that a bad financial decision can make. This can lead to a great deal of respectful discussion that can be very constructive for both, ideally without either feeling pushed or controlled.

One reason that I enjoy not being married at this phase in my life, is that ultimately I have control over my own finances and by implication, my own destiny. That doesn't mean that I don't listen to, respect, and even welcome F.'s comments and opinions on my investment choices.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:44 AM   #42
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...One reason that I enjoy not being married at this phase in my life, is that ultimately I have control over my own finances and by implication, my own destiny. That doesn't mean that I don't listen to, respect, and even welcome F.'s comments and opinions on my investment choices.
+1

Mr B and I share information freely. He is the tax, insurance and budget expert. He scrutinized my insurance policies and directed me to a better agent representing the same national insurance company. It was a no-brainer for me to make the switch. Same agent just added him to my policy for a 50% cost savings to him. He qualified for the same safe driver program that I was enrolled in.

Between the two of us, I am the longer term and often (but not always) savvier investor. He is definitely a more aggressive investor than I am.
He is currently taking an upper level college course in Finance & Investing (text is Malkiel's Random Walk...) . He has consulted with me to find online data sources and understand mutual funds better. I have shown him the mutual funds I invest in. He has made no changes to his portfolio to date, but I have a feeling he may get the Psssst bug and take a more serious look at some of the muni bond funds I currently own.

The trick is to present knowledge without arm twisting. Boundaries must remain intact.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:19 PM   #43
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Excellent above comments. The issue usually isn't the problem, it's the way it's delivered and received. Money also represents a lot of different purposes. I can talk about money even my own personal finances to a friend like you would the weather, but others treat it differently. My goal is to get her to think of her money with a level of sophistication that the lady members on this forum have. If she was a spender and not a saver, i wouldn't have asked for suggestions or even brought it up, as that takes a whole lifestyle change that I wouldn't even try to influence. The comment "of your working hard for your money ( she has saved about 25% a month from her take home pay this past year) don't you want it to work for you?" really resonated with her. She emailed me today to let me know she set up her online I Bond account and was transferring her hoard stash into a new bank at 3% after work. Next step will be the 401k once she gets the info. I will explain plus and minus of options and let it be her call, but I imagine she will go conservative which is fine by me.
She is actually getting into it I believe. I think we would be surprised at how many people don't understand any type of investing. She told me today, she told her associate at work about our conversation about compounding interest and moving money into I bonds and his comment was ... " sounds like you got a real boring boyfriend. Of course he makes $100k a year has no savings and just bought a 50k truck that is being financed and was complaining to my GF he needed some OT to get his bills caught up. she marked that is not the way she wants to live. I'm amazed at how many people view money only in terms of spending with no thought to the day when they can't.
BTW- HA, thanks for the cover! I thought Barbara brought the bully bat to the party to hit me over the head with, but I thought maybe I implied something in my writing that made her think I was trying to dominate. Then I started thinking if my GF had the outgoing direct "tell you what I think" personality, Barbara appears to have, I wouldn't have needed assistance in the first place
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:13 PM   #44
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Topics such as these pop up regularly but I've never seen one of the woman start a topic on "How to get my BF interested in the proper vacuuming method ". Why is that ?
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:33 PM   #45
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Topics such as these pop up regularly but I've never seen one of the woman start a topic on "How to get my BF interested in the proper vacuuming method ". Why is that ?


(prolly coz the woman is delighted if he vacuums at all...)

Mulligen...it seems like you're a good guy and you care for her.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:42 PM   #46
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I see nothing wrong with Mulligan's attempt to educate his GF in the manner he is doing.

I try and educate family members along the same path, it's not a case of saying look at me and how well I am doing, more it's a case of I see how they struggle and I would love them to get to a position where they control their money and are able to live a life without scrimping and saving for every little thing.

Most peeps don't do a lot of investing beyond a bank account because they fear what they don't know. They have heard of someone who lost everyting thru some random investment, ie. Enron and based on that they assume all investments are too high risk. I think if you can share your knowledge of what can be classified as safer investments with higher returns, ie. I-Bonds, why would you not do it?
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:43 PM   #47
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Topics such as these pop up regularly but I've never seen one of the woman start a topic on "How to get my BF interested in the proper vacuuming method ". Why is that ?
2 words and a match...no vacuum cleaners were harmed in the production of this show.

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Old 10-24-2011, 02:00 PM   #48
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(prolly coz the woman is delighted if he vacuums at all...)

Mulligen...it seems like you're a good guy and you care for her.

Totally agree !
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:50 PM   #49
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One comment she made last night I thought was interesting that almost derailed our conversation was " why do you talk and worry about money? Nobody I know worries about it, or talks about it? " I'm sure she is right because none of her friends have any money or are eyeballs in debt. Of course, I bit my tongue and did not say that last comment out loud, thankfully.
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She is actually getting into it I believe. I think we would be surprised at how many people don't understand any type of investing. She told me today, she told her associate at work about our conversation about compounding interest and moving money into I bonds and his comment was ... " sounds like you got a real boring boyfriend. Of course he makes $100k a year has no savings and just bought a 50k truck that is being financed and was complaining to my GF he needed some OT to get his bills caught up. she marked that is not the way she wants to live. I'm amazed at how many people view money only in terms of spending with no thought to the day when they can't.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but just wanted to point out that your GF is inconsistent. Nobody she knows talks about it or worries about it? Except everyone around her who is up to their eyeballs in debt. Most people try to avoid talking about or thinking about painful subjects, like how much debt they have or how they will be working as a walmart greeter at age 80.

I think you are doing a good deed getting her interested in her financial future. Encourage small baby steps, and if she shows that she has zero interest or aptitude for investing in anything beyond a 3% bank account account or I bonds, then let her do that.

I apologize that I didn't read the whole thread extremely closely, but Mulligan, you said you have your own pension and are still flush enough with cash to save and invest some pension proceeds? Maybe your GF is comparing her own financial situation with your financial situation and she feels she is so far behind that she could never attain the lofty position you have. As a result she may feel it isn't even worth trying to save and invest. You are on the right track to illustrate how something like $10,000 can turn into $25,000 even at 3% interest.

My DW is totally on board and a huge contributor to our FIRE goals, but not very involved or interested with the details. She just gets the basics - don't spend a lot, save a lot. Investing in risky investments like equities can lose you a lot of money short term, but long term have produced good average returns. Saving money on taxes by using IRAs and 401ks is like picking up free money off the ground, so she understands why it is important to maximize contributions to the limits each year. It took me a while to build the interest to a point where she wants to hear the quarterly update on where we are. Seeing the net worth grow to a respectable level also helped make looking at the numbers a positive experience too.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:54 PM   #50
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think...........
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:03 PM   #51
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think...........
Sez who?

PS Mulligan - please show this clip to your GF for a good laugh.

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Old 10-24-2011, 03:36 PM   #52
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Sez who?

PS Mulligan - please show this clip to your GF for a good laugh.

Freebird I could show her Mr. Ed talking about bonds and she would laugh, but if she knew the whole idea came from me talking about her on a forum thread, I would need immediate ambulance assistance!

FUEGO said - I apologize that I didn't read the whole thread extremely closely, but Mulligan, you said you have your own pension and are still flush enough with cash to save and invest some pension proceeds? Maybe your GF is comparing her own financial situation with your financial situation and she feels she is so far behind that she could never attain the lofty position you have. As a result she may feel it isn't even worth trying to save and invest. You are on the right track to illustrate how something like $10,000 can turn into $25,000 even at 3% interest.

That is also a big concern for her and many people, I think. As far as money management goes, I knew a lot , but I didn't practice what I knew, because the important thing I had to worry about was getting to a place in my career where the position maximized the pension. Now I am trying to do what I should have done. Your last comment was an important one I believe that hooked her. Originally when I discussed the I Bonds, she asked how much interest she would get. I responded close to $400 with $10,000 you put in. She initially said it didn't seem worth the time. I asked her would you mow your neighbors lawn for $400 and she said yes. I said well that will take an hour and half and this will only take 30 minutes. Then with the extended calculator it really motivated her.
I admit, I was getting that attitude, too as my 5-6 % maturing CD's this year went discouragingly right into my savings account. But, you need maximize every opportunity you get even in the low yielding guaranteed arena. I keep telling myself at 1% money doubles in 72 years, but in 24 at 3%, so it does matter even if it doesn't make you rich.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:57 PM   #53
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Freebird I could show her Mr. Ed talking about bonds and she would laugh, but if she knew the whole idea came from me talking about her on a forum thread, I would need immediate ambulance assistance!
I found it at youtube. Just search on the video title.

It might bring some levity to the $ discussions.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:36 PM   #54
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My point went over your head! I am not saying she needs a man to marry her, I am saying you are not married to her, thus not responsible for her, and should not push her to do things she is not comfortable with. I think this is a big mistake.

It's like you can't help yourself from trying to manage her money. And yes, she is uncomfortable, or she would do it on her own.

Have you asked her if she would rather you drop it? Or if she wants your advice?
There is a difference between trying to be helpful and setting ultimatums or stamping your foot insisting you get your way. Whether or not this relationship works out the educational advice that he is sending her way cannot hurt her. If she learns about compound interest, how our tax laws favor 401K's and IRA's, she will only be better off for it. Women are at a great disadvantage in almost every society. They get less pay, are apt to take time off for childbearing and childrearing and in my case, followed my husband as he moved for work. I have no regrets but luckily I understood what to do to protect myself.
Today I dropped food off at a local church foodbank. The clients picking up food were overwhelmingly grey haired ladies.
My own DIL had asked a lot of questions after she met our family, as her family is up to their necks in mortgage, credit card, car and HELOC debt and she sees us as early-retirees living a very pleasant life. I never told her what to do but sent her a bunch of books about finance and she got herself out of over $30,000 in credit card debt, has an emergency fund and is saving in her 401K. So people can change if they want to or someone shows a light at the end of a tunnel. And there is no downside to helping this woman through education.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:22 PM   #55
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I find that I can't force people to change. All I can do is lead by example, and be open and available if there are questions. It might take years before she has questions, too.

The more you push her, the more she might resist. It's human nature.
I agree with this...I've been through some marriage counseling to uncover this...the more data I threw at her (not related to investments, but a parallel issue), the more she resisted. Rather suggest turning your attention to LISTENING to her, understanding her concerns, and then working to reconcile those things. If it's simply that she's risk averse, you may not WANT to change that....she may be talking to her friends about how she gets YOU to be LESS risky.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:24 PM   #56
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Whether or not this relationship works out the educational advice that he is sending her way cannot hurt her. If she learns about compound interest, how our tax laws favor 401K's and IRA's, she will only be better off for it.
Not sure I agree....it may damage their relationship and she may feel like she's being "nagged at" or "picked on"...which is how my wife felt until I changed my approach. Sometimes we have to quit trying to change others and instead change ourselves.

Over time she may come to his side, but it must be on her own terms.
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Hmmm. I would be uncomfortable in this situation
Old 10-25-2011, 10:38 PM   #57
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Hmmm. I would be uncomfortable in this situation

If I was a single woman and my boyfriend talked to me about what to do with MY money I would not be impressed. How would he feel if his girlfriend wanted him to quit his investing and invest in "lifestyle" choices building memories of happy times they could take into their old age with them? I'm sure no man would be happy with that choice either. The point is that it is HER money and she has the right to do with it whatever she wants. I have not heard any mention made about shared living arrangements or future investments in common assets. Why would she think anyone has her interests in mind over their own needs?
I know that last spring my husband and I were in our local bank discussing what we would do with some GIC's (in Canada they are guaranteed investments) that had become due. The money involved was almost 200,000 and represented our "very safe" investments. We decided to keep them in cash instead of locking them into a very low interest invironment. We are not sorry we did not go more aggressive since the stock market is much lower.
That is our decision and we are living with it. But if someone told me to put the money somewhere and we lost money on the deal, I know we would not be happy. Just consider this a cash investment that may or may not pay off. There are many advisors who are advocating cash these days.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:04 PM   #58
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This is a touchy topic. Nothing quite like gender politics to call out some polarized opinion.
But people have had good ideas and angles, and it has all been respectuful of everyone concerned.

Good going!

Ha
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:00 AM   #59
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Not sure I agree....it may damage their relationship and she may feel like she's being "nagged at" or "picked on"...which is how my wife felt until I changed my approach. Sometimes we have to quit trying to change others and instead change ourselves.

Over time she may come to his side, but it must be on her own terms.
Excellent point.

A big consideration in a relationship like this is knowing that you have differing opinions and you have to think long and hard before entering further into the relationship. Level of education differences, religious differences as well as money management differences to name a few examples, can all lead to a lot of discord down the road unless they are discussed and both parties are very comfortable with the others philosophy.
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