How do i give my son a House the "right" way?

Enuff2Eat · 12-19-2007, 02:03 PM

At some point in my life, i would like my son to take over what i own and would like to find an "appropriate" way to give it to him without paying a fortune to uncle sam, basically kept in the "family" as much as possible and do it legally.

kindly advice... the house is an investment property in which i am collecting rents and writing off depreciation as we speak. The property is around $180k which is $80k increase since i bought it.

Please advice based on your best knowledge. I heard enuff of "go see a lawyer".

enuff

twaddle · 12-19-2007, 02:08 PM

You realize that he'd get a step-up in basis if he got it after you were dead, right?

That's how I plan to give my kid all my "extra" appreciated assets.

Enuff2Eat · 12-19-2007, 02:27 PM

twaddle, could u explain that in simple english for me??

REWahoo · 12-19-2007, 02:33 PM

From Nolo.com:

For tax purposes, a value that is used to determine profit or loss when property is sold. If someone inherits property that has increased in value since the deceased person acquired it, the tax basis of the new owner is "stepped-up" to the market value of the property at the time of death. The stepped-up basis means that when the property is eventually sold, there will be less taxable gain.

twaddle · 12-19-2007, 02:34 PM

If you sell an asset, you're taxed on the gain -- the difference between the selling price and the cost basis.

When you die, whoever inherits your assets gets a cost basis equal to the value of the assets at the time of your death. If they sell right away, for example, they pay no taxes.

Of course, this assumes that the size of your estate is below the estate tax limit. If not, see your lawyer.

(Simulposted with Wahoo)

clifp · 12-19-2007, 02:36 PM

Enuff here is a good write-up on gifts and the gift tax.

Alternatively you could wait until you die to leave him the property in your will. At the point, depending on the every changing estate tax rules, your son would inherit the property, owe no tax, and have the cost basis of the property equal to the value when you passed away.

lazygood4nothinbum · 12-19-2007, 02:46 PM

isn't there currently $1mm lifetime tax-free gifting per person? in any case, before making a decision you might want to see how the next set of estate tax rules read.

Enuff2Eat · 12-19-2007, 03:52 PM

one of the reason that i ask is also because i want to leave the kids something instead of paying 99% of my asset to the Nursing Home.

twaddle · 12-19-2007, 03:55 PM

Shifting assets will help you qualify for medicaid (after the 5-year look-back period), but it won't help with taxes. You'll just be shifting the tax burden to your kid if you gift to him.

travelover · 12-19-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enuff2Eat

one of the reason that i ask is also because i want to leave the kids something instead of paying 99% of my asset to the Nursing Home.

You might want to rethink the moral aspects of doing this. We took care of an elderly childless great aunt and uncle of DW. When getting POA work done, the attorney advised us to give away their money to their heirs so they could go on Medicaid when they were ready for the nursing home. Fired the lawyer. After they both died in the nursing home, we distributed the rest of the estate to their heirs (We were not heirs).

twaddle · 12-19-2007, 04:53 PM

I don't make any moral judgements on this issue because it's a big and complex issue. Parents want to leave a legacy for their kids. Society doesn't want to pay for the burden of the elderly.

It's going to get worse. We're getting older as a country. At some point, we'll need to face options other than wasting away in the generally poor environment of nursing homes.

FWIW, there's a beautiful nursing home in a beautiful location not far from me. I jog past there every once in a while. I see the ~~inmates~~ residents. I see the ~~guards~~ staff. I hope it doesn't happen to me.

travelover · 12-19-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle

I don't make any moral judgements on this issue because it's a big and complex issue. Parents want to leave a legacy for their kids. Society doesn't want to pay for the burden of the elderly.

It's going to get worse. We're getting older as a country. At some point, we'll need to face options other than wasting away in the generally poor environment of nursing homes.

FWIW, there's a beautiful nursing home in a beautiful location not far from me. I jog past there every once in a while. I see the ~~inmates~~ residents. I see the ~~guards~~ staff. I hope it doesn't happen to me.

I pray that I never end up in a nursing home either, but if I do, I won't expect you to pay for it so my heirs can enjoy my money.

goodguy1_64 · 12-19-2007, 05:38 PM

This mentality has always bothered me..

When a nursing home provides service to someone, they should be paid.

If that individual is indigent, taxpayer dollars are used to pay the bill.

Hiding assets to avoid paying the bill by appearing indigent, thereby passing that bill on to the taxpayers, is wrong.

goodguy

twaddle · 12-19-2007, 05:42 PM

I have only two more words to say on this subject: Soylent Green.

travelover · 12-19-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle

I have only two more words to say on this subject: Soylent Green.

Dr. Kevorkian lives just a few miles from me and he's back from the slammer.

**Gumby** · 12-19-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle

I have only two more words to say on this subject: Soylent Green.

An acting tour de force by Chuck Heston -- that anguished cry "Soylent Green is people!" -- why can't they make great movies like that anymore?

As an aside, the young wife and I went to see "I am Legend" over the weekend. It is essentially a remake of "Omega Man". I must say that Will Smith is a better actor than Chuck.

Milton · 12-20-2007, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover

You might want to rethink the moral aspects of doing this. We took care of an elderly childless great aunt and uncle of DW. When getting POA work done, the attorney advised us to give away their money to their heirs so they could go on Medicaid when they were ready for the nursing home. Fired the lawyer.

Perhaps I'm missing something here. But on its face, the above makes no sense.

The lawyer provided legal advice, which does not appear to be obviously incorrect. You may take issue with its "moral" aspects, but such concerns are not a lawyer's job. Keep in mind Milo O'Shea's remark to Paul Newman in The Verdict: "You see the padre on your way out; he'll punch your ticket ... you follow me?".

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover

After they both died in the nursing home, we distributed the rest of the estate to their heirs (We were not heirs).

Perhaps you might have acted differently if you were heirs and had an incentive to preserve the estate.

travelover · 12-20-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton

Perhaps I'm missing something here. But on its face, the above makes no sense.

The lawyer provided legal advice, which does not appear to be obviously incorrect. You may take issue with its "moral" aspects, but such concerns are not a lawyer's job. Keep in mind Milo O'Shea's remark to Paul Newman in The Verdict: "You see the padre on your way out; he'll punch your ticket ... you follow me?".

Perhaps you might have acted differently if you were heirs and had an incentive to preserve the estate.

There is a big difference in my mind between saying you could ditch the assets and you should ditch the assets. This lawyer recommended the latter.

I hope you didn't mean this to be as offensive as it sounds.

Dawg52 · 12-20-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover

You might want to rethink the moral aspects of doing this. We took care of an elderly childless great aunt and uncle of DW. When getting POA work done, the attorney advised us to give away their money to their heirs so they could go on Medicaid when they were ready for the nursing home. Fired the lawyer. After they both died in the nursing home, we distributed the rest of the estate to their heirs (We were not heirs).

Many many years ago I was having lunch with my parents and the nursing home topic came up. I mentioned the above asset transfer strategy and my mom let it be known that she didn't want the government paying for her nursing home care. I felt like she had just wore out my behind with a belt like the old days.

Needless to say, I never mentioned that again. But in full disclosure, she has given my brother's family and myself nice checks on our birthdays for the last few years. Not for the above purpose, but just for her personal satisfaction.

kaudrey · 12-20-2007, 08:50 AM

To try to get back to the question....

As twaddle noted, it is probably most effective to give your son the house when you die, due to the step-up provision.

As for other assets, you can give away $12,000 each year to anyone you want ($24K if you are married) without paying gift taxes, and you can do that anytime. If you want to reduce your estate over time, this is one way to do it.

12-19-2007, 02:03 PM	#1
Enuff2Eat Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 298	How do i give my son a House the "right" way? At some point in my life, i would like my son to take over what i own and would like to find an "appropriate" way to give it to him without paying a fortune to uncle sam, basically kept in the "family" as much as possible and do it legally. kindly advice... the house is an investment property in which i am collecting rents and writing off depreciation as we speak. The property is around $180k which is $80k increase since i bought it. Please advice based on your best knowledge. I heard enuff of "go see a lawyer". enuff

12-19-2007, 02:08 PM	#2
twaddle Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,377	You realize that he'd get a step-up in basis if he got it after you were dead, right? That's how I plan to give my kid all my "extra" appreciated assets. __________________ I will work no more forever.

12-19-2007, 02:33 PM	#4
REWahoo Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 10,191	From Nolo.com: For tax purposes, a value that is used to determine profit or loss when property is sold. If someone inherits property that has increased in value since the deceased person acquired it, the tax basis of the new owner is "stepped-up" to the market value of the property at the time of death. The stepped-up basis means that when the property is eventually sold, there will be less taxable gain. __________________ Some claim to have a crystal ball when it comes to investing in stocks and real estate. Me, I've got a disco ball... Retired in 2005 at age 58 - better FIREd late than never.

12-19-2007, 02:34 PM	#5
twaddle Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,377	If you sell an asset, you're taxed on the gain -- the difference between the selling price and the cost basis. When you die, whoever inherits your assets gets a cost basis equal to the value of the assets at the time of your death. If they sell right away, for example, they pay no taxes. Of course, this assumes that the size of your estate is below the estate tax limit. If not, see your lawyer. (Simulposted with Wahoo) __________________ I will work no more forever.

12-19-2007, 02:46 PM	#7
lazygood4nothinbum Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,359	isn't there currently $1mm lifetime tax-free gifting per person? in any case, before making a decision you might want to see how the next set of estate tax rules read. __________________ "life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901

12-19-2007, 02:27 PM	#3
Enuff2Eat Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 298	twaddle, could u explain that in simple english for me??

12-19-2007, 02:36 PM	#6
clifp Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,774	Enuff here is a good write-up on gifts and the gift tax. Alternatively you could wait until you die to leave him the property in your will. At the point, depending on the every changing estate tax rules, your son would inherit the property, owe no tax, and have the cost basis of the property equal to the value when you passed away.

12-19-2007, 03:52 PM	#8
Enuff2Eat Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 298	one of the reason that i ask is also because i want to leave the kids something instead of paying 99% of my asset to the Nursing Home.

12-19-2007, 03:55 PM	#9
twaddle Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,377	Shifting assets will help you qualify for medicaid (after the 5-year look-back period), but it won't help with taxes. You'll just be shifting the tax burden to your kid if you gift to him. __________________ I will work no more forever.

12-19-2007, 04:53 PM	#11
twaddle Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,377	I don't make any moral judgements on this issue because it's a big and complex issue. Parents want to leave a legacy for their kids. Society doesn't want to pay for the burden of the elderly. It's going to get worse. We're getting older as a country. At some point, we'll need to face options other than wasting away in the generally poor environment of nursing homes. FWIW, there's a beautiful nursing home in a beautiful location not far from me. I jog past there every once in a while. I see the ~~inmates~~ residents. I see the ~~guards~~ staff. I hope it doesn't happen to me. __________________ I will work no more forever.

12-19-2007, 05:38 PM	#13
goodguy1_64 Dryer sheet wannabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 19	This mentality has always bothered me.. When a nursing home provides service to someone, they should be paid. If that individual is indigent, taxpayer dollars are used to pay the bill. Hiding assets to avoid paying the bill by appearing indigent, thereby passing that bill on to the taxpayers, is wrong. goodguy

12-19-2007, 05:42 PM	#14
twaddle Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,377	I have only two more words to say on this subject: Soylent Green. __________________ I will work no more forever.

12-20-2007, 08:50 AM	#20
kaudrey Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alexandria, Va Posts: 496	To try to get back to the question.... As twaddle noted, it is probably most effective to give your son the house when you die, due to the step-up provision. As for other assets, you can give away $12,000 each year to anyone you want ($24K if you are married) without paying gift taxes, and you can do that anytime. If you want to reduce your estate over time, this is one way to do it.