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Old 09-09-2014, 10:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jollystomper View Post
I guess I have a different view of networking. I don't refer contact A to contact B unless I have cleared it with contact B first.
+1
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
I don't know all the details of your professional networking, but if someone from the network calls me without it being cleared in advance, I'm going to get in touch with whoever gave out my name and be very cross. That's NOT the way it's done around here. I might take the name and contact info for the FA and offer to pass it to people I think might be interested (and I would actually do so), but it's always up to the people in my network to make the call or not. NEVER would I give someone else's contact info to a FA or other salesman. Never.
This reminds me of when my (snake-bit, remember?) friend had some Prudential salesman at his place in 2012 trying to sell him an annuity. My friend called me then put the salesman on the phone to try to sell me one! I had to tactfully tell him I wasn't interested before scolding my friend for putting him on the phone with me like that. I was able to talk my friend out of buying anything from the salesman and armed him with some good info given to me by several of you in this forum.
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:18 AM   #23
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Why not go to the person that referred, and ask him/her for advice?

Specifically, explain that you will never use financial advisors and
  • Don't want to waste anyone's time
  • Don't want to sound ungrateful for a good referral
  • Don't want to create issues
.. so how can you best approach this?

Likely the person will respond with: up to you how to handle this, feel free to haven an appointment or not.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:10 AM   #24
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...Much of my business comes from networking and word of mouth from what I like to call professional friends. Part of the quid pro quid nature of all this means that sometimes these professional friends need to bank their own goodwill by referring me or my business as potential customers to someone else. Sometimes these are financial advisers of one ilk or another.

.....How do you handle it? ...
I would just say that you are an avowed do-it-yourselfer and have done quite well but if in the future you are in need of a financial advisor that you will keep them in mind. If you use your MF provider's financial planning service (I use Vanguard's) then you could say that you already have a financial advisor that your are happy with and have no reason to change but will keep them in mind if your situation changes.
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:04 PM   #25
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I really don't understand the need to put down an FA with some kind of smart-a$$ one-liner. You don't even have to tell them you are a DIY, unless you prefer to wear that as some sort of badge of honor. You could even say you don't have enough to invest.

What's wrong with a professional-sounding line like "I prefer not to make any changes at this time."?
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:03 PM   #26
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What's wrong with a professional-sounding line like "I prefer not to make any changes at this time."?
+1

It's also the line I take with the rare door-to-door evangelists. "Our needs are met now". End of discussion.
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Old 09-11-2014, 12:29 PM   #27
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+1

It's also the line I take with the rare door-to-door evangelists. "Our needs are met now". End of discussion.
+1/+2

Thanks again, everyone.
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:04 PM   #28
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fastest way to get rid of someone who you don't want to talk to....tell them you are in timeshare sales!
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #29
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Right, that will just engage them in their practiced sales pitch. Don't go there.

I think I'd simply be honest, which is best for them also, they won't waste their time either. Simple say " I manage my own finances, and I'm happy with that arrangement. If I ever feel I need your services, I'll give you a call."

If they persist, then they have opened themselves up to a little firmer reply, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. But if I'm afraid of offending other contacts, I'd simply reply, 'No thank you, I'm not interested at this time". And I'd simply repeat that again and again, nothing added, until they stop.

And if your other contacts ask you about the FA, you could just say something like "Oh, he sounded like a nice guy/gal, I just don't need their services at this time, thanks."

-ERD50
+1 I need to print this out and keep it. It's far more diplomatic, and time-saving, than my usual hemming and hawing (trying to avoid hurt feelings).

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:22 PM   #30
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I started a new job a few months ago and as part of my "on-boarding" they brought me up to the sales-desk where all the "walkers and talkers" hang out and sell annuities / life insurance...

I was fortunate enough to meet the sales desk manager whom I proposed the question "How do you guys sell to an index-only investor?" at which his response was "our products are a great way to gaurentee an income stream and protect your wealth"

He tried to sell me on the "but is your money protected?" pitch. He didnt have much beyond that. I suppose if I wasn't diversified into real-estate the risk of being heavily allocated into index funds might be something that kept me up at night.

If it was someone I didn't want to offend (which really isn't aikin to my myers briggs personality traits) I would simply respond "I appreciate you extending the service offerings but at this time I am pleased with my financial arrangements."

If I decided to ignore humanality which is sometimes the case I would respond "Are you asking this eskimo if he wants to buy some ice?"
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:32 PM   #31
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How about this: "What a timely call. I just received a sizeable settlement from my lawsuit against my previous FA and need to invest it. When can we meet?"

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Old 09-11-2014, 05:01 PM   #32
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I really don't understand the need to put down an FA with some kind of smart-a$$ one-liner.
Yes, that is very true and polite. And no doubt the best way to handle the situation. However some of these one liners are really funny!
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:05 PM   #33
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I hope folks didn't consider my one-liner as a put down. I was very serious about it.

Once a TDAmeritrade employee asked me about my retirement plans. I told him that I was fiduciary for a 401(k) plan and that I could help him with his 401(k). A very nice chat ensued and I think I helped him out.
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:46 PM   #34
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...
As Bestwife suggested, these are 100% more like referrals than cold calls. If one of my contacts puts me in touch with a potential customer, I expect that potential customer to give me at least a short but real bite at the apple. So it's only fair that the same would be expected of me when the situation is reversed. ...
I'm still confused. And curious I guess. It sounds backwards to me - what am I missing?

I can't picture a case where you tell a business person about a potential client, without talking with the potential client first to see if they are interested in being approached.

Like if "Bob" mentions they are having problems with their gutters, I might mention to "Bob" that I know a guy that does good gutter work. But I wouldn't go to the gutter guy and just tell him to call "Bob" and to mention my name. And I wouldn't say "I'll have my gutter guy call you", w/o getting some feedback that that is what "Bob" wants.

So how does this work that the business person calls you unsolicited, and then you feel you have some obligation to the person he got your name from? I don't get it.

-ERD50
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:38 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
What's wrong with a professional-sounding line like "I prefer not to make any changes at this time."?
IMO, many of these suggested answers are too wishy-washy, and beg the FA to call you later.

"I prefer not to make any changes at this time" - what the FA hears is "I'm trying to make you go away because I don't like cold calling...but I have no clue what I'm going to do down the road with my investments and am too afraid to say anything, and I'm probably just another rube who could be talked into handing over a portion of my portfolio for you to invest".

Your answers need to be unequivocally clear without any potential to interpret differently. The FA will try to use any argument to get their foot in the door by attacking whatever 'reason' you give for not handing over your portfolio for them to extract various fees from.

You have to use clear words like "I will ALWAYS manage my portfolio,with Vanguard index funds", not "I'm fine at the moment with Vanguard funds", because phrases like "at the moment" imply that you could be open to the FA at a later point in time, and will have a much higher chance of a return call, IMO.

Some FA might take the hint and not bother you any more, but some sales people (in any profession) will try and twist and interpret what you're saying into any chance to get another audience later on.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:51 PM   #36
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Yep, my spouse was too wishy-washy with the Edward Jones door-knocker. The EJ saleswoman kept calling and leaving messages on the answering machine. Finally I picked up and told her in no uncertain terms to never contact us again either by phone, by mail, by anything. It worked.
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:22 PM   #37
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I really don't know what to tell you. Maybe regional or industry differences? Also, keep in mind these aren't quite direct "sales referrals". It's more of "you guys might be able to scratch each other's backs" or "this could end up being mutually beneficial" or "you seem like two people who should know each other". I guess it's almost like having a friend invite to a gathering a member of the opposite sex (or same if appropriate) because they think the two of you might hit it off. Except this is purely professional, or at least purely non-romantic/sexual.

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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'm still confused. And curious I guess. It sounds backwards to me - what am I missing?

I can't picture a case where you tell a business person about a potential client, without talking with the potential client first to see if they are interested in being approached.

Like if "Bob" mentions they are having problems with their gutters, I might mention to "Bob" that I know a guy that does good gutter work. But I wouldn't go to the gutter guy and just tell him to call "Bob" and to mention my name. And I wouldn't say "I'll have my gutter guy call you", w/o getting some feedback that that is what "Bob" wants.

So how does this work that the business person calls you unsolicited, and then you feel you have some obligation to the person he got your name from? I don't get it.

-ERD50
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #38
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IMO, many of these suggested answers are too wishy-washy, and beg the FA to call you later.

"I prefer not to make any changes at this time" - what the FA hears is "I'm trying to make you go away because I don't like cold calling...but I have no clue what I'm going to do down the road with my investments and am too afraid to say anything, and I'm probably just another rube who could be talked into handing over a portion of my portfolio for you to invest".

Your answers need to be unequivocally clear without any potential to interpret differently. The FA will try to use any argument to get their foot in the door by attacking whatever 'reason' you give for not handing over your portfolio for them to extract various fees from.

You have to use clear words like "I will ALWAYS manage my portfolio,with Vanguard index funds", not "I'm fine at the moment with Vanguard funds", because phrases like "at the moment" imply that you could be open to the FA at a later point in time, and will have a much higher chance of a return call, IMO.

Some FA might take the hint and not bother you any more, but some sales people (in any profession) will try and twist and interpret what you're saying into any chance to get another audience later on.
Relax, Mr. Bonds. Did someone challenge you to a duel? You can reject someone's offer without arrogance. I don't see where Vanguard or DIY have anything to do with telling someone you don't need their services. Maybe your shorts are in a wad.

You seem to have done a 180 since this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
...I've always loved investments/investment analysis, and have toyed with the idea of becoming a Financial Advisor (either self-employed, or working for a firm such as American Express, et. al.). ...
and this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
... Unless, that is, I get my dream job of portfolio management for a personal financial planner or mutual fund, where I can do what I do right now after-hours, and get paid for it ...
As for
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
. . . Your answers need to be . . .
I can formulate my own answers, but thanks for offering to help.

And
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
. . . You have to use clear words . . .
I can choose my own words, but thanks again for offering to help with that. If I need some help I'll ask for it.

I'll make you a deal: You do things your way and I'll do them my way.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:40 PM   #39
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Wow. You apparently have enough obsession to wade back through enough of my old posts for whatever strange, stalking reason. Congrats!

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Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
Relax, Mr. Bonds [insert my name].
Yes, you saw my name in an old post. And felt the need to reference it, for whatever strange reason (intimidation? show of intelligence? condescension?). It's only been, what...7 years since I've used my name in a post? I was trying to add a little anonymity to things by not using it in the past 7 years. Which you might be able to appreciate, considering you don't list your gender or even general geographic area in your profile.


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Did someone challenge you to a duel? You can reject someone's offer without arrogance. I don't see where Vanguard or DIY have anything to do with telling someone you don't need their services. Maybe your shorts are in a wad.

Huh? Just curious, but is there a reason you're choosing to single me out in your torrent? In case you didn't notice, other people have made reference to Vanguard or DIY in this thread.

Are you reading my bold words and picturing me standing with a megaphone, barking out orders like a drill sergeant? I was merely bolding and capitalizing one or two words to point out the differences in the sentences, since most of the other words are the same.

And if you really felt that 'offended' by my words on behalf of FAs everywhere, perhaps you should take up arms against the far more acrimonious posts towards FAs in this thread, like


Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
The EJ saleswoman kept calling and leaving messages on the answering machine. Finally I picked up and told her in no uncertain terms to never contact us again either by phone, by mail, by anything. It worked.
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Originally Posted by pullmyfinger View Post
However some of these one liners are really funny!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Barnfellow View Post
"What a timely call. I just received a sizeable settlement from my lawsuit against my previous FA and need to invest it. When can we meet?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgtest View Post
If I decided to ignore humanality which is sometimes the case I would respond "Are you asking this eskimo if he wants to buy some ice?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtn View Post
fastest way to get rid of someone who you don't want to talk to....tell them you are in timeshare sales!
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Originally Posted by Car-Guy View Post
You might ask (or at least wonder) if the FA is so good at what they do, why is he/she still working for a living?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
"Can I manage your investments for you?"

So far it has worked quite well. It's a good offense without being offensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019 View Post
"I self manage our finances and get free advice from a close relative who is a senior level advisor with organized crime syndicate."

Maybe it's just me, but when you look at the black-and-white plain words of what I posted, they seem fairly benign compared to some of these gems above.


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Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
You seem to have done a 180 since this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
...I've always loved investments/investment analysis, and have toyed with the idea of becoming a Financial Advisor (either self-employed, or working for a firm such as American Express, et. al.). ...
Selectively quote much? If you bothered continuing your quote, the VERY NEXT sentences would have included:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
I know that it'll draw a lot of sneers , but if I do become a FA, I honestly would be in it for peoples' best interests, since:

1) I naturally looking out for other peoples' protection/welfare/well being, and
2) I would be very close to FI, so I wouldn't need to practice used-car salesman tactics to skim 2% commissions off of fee-laden investments to live a high-flying lifestyle.
Also, it's just a little relevant that the above post was from JANUARY 5, 2005, when I was the ripe old age of 28 (not yelling, just pointing things out). If you really want to know if my opinion has changed, I would have happily told you that January 2005 (at age 28) was soon after I joined the forum, and still learning in the earlier stages of my personal finance journey, and wasn't really aware of how bloated some of the "financial advisors" are with all of their various fees/expense ratios/etc., and how a supermajority of FAs are actually simply sales people with little true investment knowledge. And January 2005 was also before I had ever heard of Dimensional Fund Advisors, or people like Larry Swerdroe or Bill Bernstein.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
and this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
Unless, that is, I get my dream job of portfolio management for a personal financial planner or mutual fund, where I can do what I do right now after-hours, and get paid for it
Still not seeing the relevance. Have I ever said that all mutual funds are the spawn of satan? I freely admit that I own multiple actively managed mutual funds and ETFs (a majority of the active funds are foreign mutual funds). And have I ever said that ALL personal financial planners are worthless?

Come now, you have gone through all of my posts....surely you've never seen me take issue with CFPs that charge by the hour, or have reasonable fees assigned to the client? I don't fit the mold of someone that needs a CFP's services, but I've never said that all of them are worthless to everyone in the world and have no place in a civilized society.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
As for
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
Your answers need to be unequivocally clear
I can formulate my own answers, but thanks for offering to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
And
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
You have to use clear words
I can choose my own words, but thanks again for offering to help with that. If I need some help I'll ask for it.
Not really understanding why you chose to take such personal offense to my post when I wasn't even addressing you, specifically, as you hadn't originally typed that or asked the original question.

When someone says "I can manage my investments with Vanguard at this time, I'm fine", they are saying that they are fine "at this moment in time", which could imply that they won't be fine "at a future date". If they use a simple statement that doesn't imply a future event could happen (like "I manage my own investments, I'm fine"), it doesn't imply that there would be a future condition that might change their outlook.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:36 AM   #40
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Interesting exchange, but it seems to me that Rustward and MooreBonds have missed an ideal real life opportunity to illustrate their respective approaches to dealing with unwanted referrals. Their exchange could have gone something like this:

Rustward: "Thanks for the advice, MooreBonds, but I prefer not to make any changes to my approach to FA referrals at this time."

MooreBonds: "You're very welcome, Rustward. As for me, I will always prefer my approach to yours."
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