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Old 12-15-2011, 12:21 AM   #81
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I've taken something of a hammering on the mostly emerging markets equity portfolio - which is hardly surprising given the way markets in places like Hong Kong, China and India have done this year. FX gains and cash flow from rentals offset some of the losses, but it has still been a seriously ugly year. The performance was not helped by my attempts to pick the bottom.

As things stand, although I will still reach my number again in Q1 2012 (I get a big end of year pay out then), my margin of safety has been eroded to the point where I am seriously considering "just one more year" of w*rk.

Where o where is Gavrilo Princip when Europe needs him?
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:17 PM   #82
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I am up 2.3% in 2011 for the whole portfolio, calculated on 11/30/11 as per Vanguard site. Yes, I agree at least it is not a loss yet. I suspect it will be less than 2.3% though, as Dec has been a loss so far.

Imagine how much more risk, one has to take these days to get a return equal to a Bank's usual rate of return from past years.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:29 PM   #83
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Per M* portfolio manager, YTD Total Return = 5.1%
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No withdrawals, DCA additions of approx $1200, reinvested TE dividends approx $4800 (thank you VWALX)
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:57 PM   #84
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No withdrawals, DCA additions...
You are fully retired, yet having no withdrawal and still putting money away?

Who are on your lucky beneficiary list?
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:47 AM   #85
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This thread brings up a question concerning how everyone is computing their performance. If I have a 401K, normally the fund will compute a personal rate of return; that seems pretty straight forward.

Now lets take an example using everyone's favorite fund; VWINX.
* If I use Google Finance to look up the data, I get a few numbers. In the chart, click YTD; 2 numbers are presented: +0.88 (4.06%): Not sure what the +0.88 is, but the 4.06% is a straight calculation of percent return from the beginning of the year to the end of the year.
* There is also a chart to the right with bar graphs showing Trailing Returns YTD of 7.63%. I'm assuming this includes dividends?
* Morningstar shows VWINX with a YTD return of 7.96%; why the 0.33 difference from Google Finance?

What returns is everyone using
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:58 AM   #86
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Rowdy,

All sites have different methods as you found out. My 401K personal rate of return was slightly different than what I found using XIRR in Excel.

Google shows +0.88 that is simply the change in NAV from Jan 1. The second number would be the pct change. Could be wrong though, as I am far from an expert.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:10 AM   #87
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You are correct, the +0.88 is the change from start of the year to the end of the year.

The varying data for VWINX from the different sites:

Google Finance: 7.63%
Morningstar: 7.96%
Yahoo Finance: 6.92% (the flyer; must read the fine print that this is to 30 November)
Daily Finance: 7.96%
Reuters: 7.96%
Vanguard: 7.96%

So I guess we found a winner: 7.96% (darn, that's pretty good!)
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:58 PM   #88
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I'm glad I found this thread, I had been wondering how people did in 2011. My entire portfolio is up about 2.2%. Seeing others with similar numbers made me feel better, or at least not as bad. I was over 4% on 6/30...and naive enough to think if I just left things alone I'd end up at 8% or so CY2011.

Ok so what's the secret to those who reported in at the 7, 8 percent range? My portfolio does lean the lower risk side of the spectrum.
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:27 PM   #89
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Rowdy,

I have an Excel spreadsheet for my savings into which goes all deposits and withdrawals throughout the year in the month they occur. (Not many these post-ER days)

I then use the XIRR function to give the return.

For my VG investments I click on the peronal performance tab and view the results there. The personal performance figures also take into account my deposits and withdrawals throughout the time period, and the result for a particular fund could well differ from the data published in M* which assumes no additions and withdrawals.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:18 PM   #90
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I'm glad I found this thread, I had been wondering how people did in 2011. My entire portfolio is up about 2.2%. Seeing others with similar numbers made me feel better, or at least not as bad. I was over 4% on 6/30...and naive enough to think if I just left things alone I'd end up at 8% or so CY2011.

Ok so what's the secret to those who reported in at the 7, 8 percent range? My portfolio does lean the lower risk side of the spectrum.
I am sure there are more than one way, but this year, one MF that is popular on this forum has done well. It was already mentioned a few times on this thread. It is also conservative.

Perhaps you are a new-comer, hence are not aware of the ongoing open-secret that a certain long-time poster has been propagating. Search this site for Psssst and see for yourself.

At this point, it is anyone's guess as to whether that outstanding performance will continue. I remember that after watching several Dodge&Cox funds doing well, I put a few % of my portfolio into them. They did OK for a few years, then tanked.

By the way, I remember Bogle did once speak in defense of Dodge & Cox funds. I am still holding them too.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:53 PM   #91
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According to Vanguard my accounts there are up 5.3%. Including my other investments, 4.8%.

But still, this sounds a lot rosier than it feels. I think that our losses this year very closely mirror our percentage in international equities.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:10 AM   #92
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In my IRA, I am up about +3.3% for 11 months ending 11/30/2011. No additions or withdrawals.

In my taxable accounts, I am about -0.5% for 12 months ending 12/15/2011, my latest checkpoint. This includes the money I have taken out in dividends via cash to cover my expenses. If I put them back into the equation, I'd be about +2.0%.

Overall, I am about +0.7% combined. Once I hit 12/31/2011, I will have a better combined rate of return for 12 common months (all of 2011).
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:47 AM   #93
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To my inexperienced eyes, it appears that in Vanguard's performance area, the IRR is calculated to end of previous month, but the chart shows actual through the current date.

But wait, that chart is a plot of actual returns, and not the balance.

This thread has been useful, as I have identified 1 or 2 funds to kick from the portfolio.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:44 AM   #94
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Thanks to GLD and a few others, I am up 8.8%. Not great, but I am ok with it. 75% in equities.........
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:34 AM   #95
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Yep that's true, I was using Vanguards tools and they don't have YTD numbers. Also I included my after tax account and there's been a lot of activity in that to pay down the mortgage. For just the retirement portion I'm at +7.2% for one year and if I take YTD returns over beginning balance I'm at +5.4%. Thank you Wellesley.
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Both VG and FIDO web sites give you this number.
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According to VG,, my IRR thru 11/30/11 is +6.2%. Haven't taken any withdrawals this year, nor added any "new" money beyond reinvesting of capital gains/dividends.

No complaints given the roller coaster market!

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According to Vanguard my accounts there are up 5.3%. Including my other investments, 4.8%.
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To my inexperienced eyes, it appears that in Vanguard's performance area, the IRR is calculated to end of previous month, but the chart shows actual through the current date.

But wait, that chart is a plot of actual returns, and not the balance.
Yep. It doesn't show withdrawals AFAIK.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:23 PM   #96
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This is a little worse than I thought...

Quote:
The average diversified U.S. stock mutual fund has fallen 5.9% this year, vs. a 1.4% loss for the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index, says Lipper, which tracks the funds. Out of 8,036 funds, 7,399, or 92%, are showing a loss and some are doozies.
Most stock funds post losses this year
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:36 AM   #97
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So, what is the up/down of the total?
.
I think this was directed at me. Sorry for the slow response. It varies from day to day right now with the way the market has been - but overall somewhere between + or - 0.5%. I can't complain based on how the market has been this year and the fact that I am using an aggressive asset allocation. So overall I am happy.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:40 AM   #98
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Well my overall portfolio balance is down, but I received a large deferred payout from my former employer that got hit by $115K in taxes. Since that money was never "mine" if I adjust my 12/31/10 balance down by the contingent taxes I am up 1.95% on the year. And that is net of monthly withdrawals. Adjusting for withdrawals I am up 4.7%.

However, looking at my core portfolio which is all vanguard, I am 60% Total Bond, 42% Total Stock and 18% Total International - the composite return on that YTD is only 0.97% - my company stock is virtually flat for the YTD so my employee stock options can't explain the difference.

Ahh - I see it was dumb luck - got over $400K deferred bonus payout in mid September and invested it by end September just in time to catch the big October rebound. Once again proving "better lucky than good".
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:30 PM   #99
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+1.1% YTD as a result of too much in cash.
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Old 12-25-2011, 04:31 PM   #100
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I am up 0.6% so far. Nothing to write home about, but a heck of a lot better than 2008!
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