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Old 08-21-2010, 12:13 PM   #61
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As always, nice pickup. Busted.
Busted?

Others have changed their screen name. Were they 'busted'? It used to be a game for some. I never liked it as it did make it confusing when looking back at old posts - the screen name changes on the old ones too, creating a disconnect with comments. You can see this in (whatever his name is) first posts.

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Old 08-21-2010, 01:08 PM   #62
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Busted?

Others have changed their screen name. Were they 'busted'? It used to be a game for some. I never liked it as it did make it confusing when looking back at old posts - the screen name changes on the old ones too, creating a disconnect with comments. You can see this in (whatever his name is) first posts.
The old forum software (pre 2008) allowed users to change names, vBulletin does not - at least not without moderator assistance. Also, due to some of the reasons you mentioned above plus others, when Community Rules were drawn up they included this:

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Participants may only have one account unless moderator permission for multiple accounts is granted. Moderators may consolidate or delete multiple accounts if permission is not obtained.
Busted? Yep.
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Old 08-21-2010, 02:05 PM   #63
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The old forum software (pre 2008) allowed users to change names, vBulletin does not - at least not without moderator assistance. Also, due to some of the reasons you mentioned above plus others, when Community Rules were drawn up they included this:

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Participants may only have one account unless moderator permission for multiple accounts is granted. Moderators may consolidate or delete multiple accounts if permission is not obtained
.

Busted? Yep.
OK, that's good AFAIC, but I'm still confused then.

If (what's his/her name) couldn't do it w/o mod assistance, where does the 'busted' come from? If it was an illegitimate second account, they would not have been linked (with references to the other name).

Unless the poster found a 'back door' or some other glitch in the vBulletin SW to allow a name change w/o mod approval - that would explain it.

edit - OK, so maybe a mod detected the second account, but rather than delete it merged it w/o any sort of public notice. I guess I see that as tacit approval rather than a 'busting', but that's just semantics I guess. No big deal, just got curious over this.

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Old 08-21-2010, 02:09 PM   #64
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CD's worked fine for me from 1988 - 2010. That works out to 22 years. Currently locked in to 2013 at 5.66%. Tell me about when inflation kicks in and your principal starts (or aleady has) to decline. I would/could not think of a worse situation.
That's great. I wouldn't be surprised if you had been able to do even better over that period with a 50/50 mix rebalanced yearly, because there were some very good years with stocks for the first part of that stretch.

5.66 is a nice rate. I need to keep a closer watch on CD rates because I never seem to find them anywhere near that high whenever I look. With the rates I find, I seriously worry they won't keep up with inflation. I feel that stocks, while more risky, over time have a better chance to do better. Of course neither of us can be certain which will do better.
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Old 08-21-2010, 02:27 PM   #65
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edit - OK, so maybe a mod detected the second account, but rather than delete it merged it w/o any sort of public notice.
That's the same conclusion I drew.

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I guess I see that as tacit approval rather than a 'busting'...
I don't think we have enough information to reach that conclusion. We don't know what sanctions were placed on the bustee by the mods. I suspect he was told if he attempted a repeat performance he would be escorted to the entrance and thrown out into the street. But that's just wishful thinking a guess.
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Old 08-21-2010, 02:38 PM   #66
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That's the same conclusion I drew.



I don't think we have enough information to reach that conclusion. We don't know what sanctions were placed on the bustee by the mods. I suspect he was told if he attempted a repeat performance he would be escorted to the entrance and thrown out into the street. But that's just wishful thinking a guess.
Agreed. Although I get a bit of twisted amusement out of these little 'dramas'. I think it tells us far more about the poster than they imagine .


OT: I just noticed your sig line, I assume it was updated recently -

I suggest limiting all elected officials to just two terms - one in office and one in prison. - Kinky Friedman

We've been doing that with our IL Governors for quite some time! Doesn't seem to have much effect (evidenced by the fact that we've been doing it for quite some time!). Blago is number 6 (7?).

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Old 08-22-2010, 11:31 AM   #67
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Picky picky picky. Is there any intelligent human being on this forum who didn't know what I was talking about? I think not.
Yes but your credibility would be enhanced if you knew how to spell an important word in your argument.
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:56 PM   #68
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I think the principle of the principal relevant data on this board is how many of its members have added you to their "Ignore Poster" lists. Luckily the moderators will help you keep track of any notable milestones.

You have a nice life now.
Pardon me, but that makes no sense. I have no way of knowing, nor do I care, and you have no way of knowing, nor should you care, who has added anyone to their ignore list.

Its their to keep blood pressures from rising too high.

It the principal of the thing.

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Old 08-22-2010, 01:07 PM   #69
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I'm also a public employee and participant in a defined benefit pension plan. I work for a city, not a state, but otherwise the conditions sound similar: the pension system is badly underfunded (it's actually quite a lot worse off than PA), the City is on the hook to make up any shortfall, and it would require legislation to change or discontinue the payments. Instead of taking a contribution holiday in 2001, the City added an unfunded partial COLA to the pension benefit. We got shellacked in 2008, and to add insult to injury, also lost a little over 1% of its assets that year to a collapsing hedge fund. As a result, it is also paying out more in benefits than it is bringing in in earnings, and even with drastic increases in both employee contributions and the City match (probably starting next year), we may not see the 100% funding level again in my lifetime.

None of that makes either system, or any other DBP a swindle. You're making the mistake of attributing to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
You are looking at a very narrow description of a ponzi scheme. if you want to stick to the textbook definition, then no DB plan is a ponzi scheme. However, no DB plan also exists sole on the money that is invested. PA's plan is pretty well managed compared to many, is untouchable by the state government BY LAW, and must be paid because of the State Constitution, and both the state employees and the State Police are other aspects of the total process of public emplyees. altho the State police and public employees get free health care and educators do not.

So.... since the plan requires state money(money from state taxes) and School District money(money from local taxes), essentially they are using money from people who are working right now to pay the retirement benefits of people who are retired now.

In a ponzi scheme its similar. You use money that you get from investors right now, to pay for the benefits of people who have money in your fund, to prop it up. Whenever money is used to pay for benefits, and that money comes from people in the same real time, then in my opinion is kind of ponzi like. Its not a strict definition.

IN PA you could make a case for that not being true since the fund currently has nearly 50 billion dollars in it. But if you divide the number of current retired teachers by the bucks in the fund's investment returns per year, you can see that there is not enough money to handle the expenses. So this mean that my payments, the state's payment, and the district's payment and some of the investment income is going to pay for my mother's DB teacher pension at her elderly age 87, when she retired 30 years ago.

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Old 08-22-2010, 02:12 PM   #70
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Technically retiring at 59 and a half is still retiring early since most look at what the SS retirement age is and that keeps rising. So as long as you are retiring prior to the SS retirement age you are early in my book. If you can do it before 59 and a half then its not retirement it is Financial Independance and you can technically "retire" since you no longer need to depend on a paycheck.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:26 PM   #71
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I agree with 1 thing, RE does require some luck to stay away from the 3Ds:
divorce, disease, or death. Any one of these can ruin you plans for ER.
TJ
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:57 PM   #72
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I agree with 1 thing, RE does require some luck to stay away from the 3Ds:
divorce, disease, or death. Any one of these can ruin you plans for ER.
TJ
Or personal ethics and good heredity. Death comes to all, Saint, sinner, and the most powerful and richest in the world.

But luck: Whenever my wife uses to date and exact time to buy lottery tickets, she always gets more numbers correct.
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Old 08-22-2010, 04:02 PM   #73
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Agreed. Although I get a bit of twisted amusement out of these little 'dramas'. I think it tells us far more about the poster than they imagine .
Yes it does.

Makes you wonder if that virtual world character trait carries over into the real world.
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:38 PM   #74
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Sure..... but if you think this is attainable by more than a very very small percentage of the population, then you are living in a dream world bubble and should try to do it with all the normal stuff of living: buying a house, living on a salary or wages, having any children, paying healthcare, etc.

Get out your calculator. Figure the numbers you need. I don't know anybody in MY WORLD who has this kind of money. I'm sure many do, and maybe many on this very narrow framework forum, but for 99% of the population this is really only the territory of the Lottery.

I have to say, I agree but to a certain extent. Just keep in mind that no matter what you make, you should always strive to save a sizable chunk. I am ahead of most of my peers because I've always been careful with money but having a high income career and side business were the keys to financial success for me.
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Old 08-22-2010, 08:09 PM   #75
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I agree with 1 thing, RE does require some luck to stay away from the 3Ds:
divorce, disease, or death. Any one of these can ruin you plans for ER.
TJ
Death would just kill it for me one way or the other.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:48 PM   #76
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Factors that get me to ER at 50

1) No children
2) No debt
3) Frugal lifestyle
4) Saving 50% of my gross income (as I have no children and an ex wife who didn't want alimony)


Factors that may make retirement difficult, no children
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:12 PM   #77
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Factors that may make retirement difficult, no children
How so? Please elaborate.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:19 PM   #78
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How so? Please elaborate.
Well I suppose as I get older I'll think "what might have been". I'll long for days on the porch with the "yung 'uns" scampering around and for a son or daughter that can look after me as dementia sets in.

Seriously, I'm not a fan of children and right now (at 49) I have plenty of friends and I'm healthy so everything's great. But I can see I might be lonely as I age without close family.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:48 PM   #79
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But I can see I might be lonely as I age without close family.
Some of us may envy you for being able to age without having to cope with close family...

Actually we had a choice whether or not to procreate. The frustration was the lack of choice over parents & in-laws.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:33 PM   #80
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You are looking at a very narrow description of a ponzi scheme. if you want to stick to the textbook definition, then no DB plan is a ponzi scheme.
Actually, it was the dictionary, not a textbook, and yes, I think using the commonly-accepted meanings of words is better than Humpty Dumpty's method. (“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” from Through the Looking-Glass, by Lewis Carroll) If you use your own definitions instead, it's going to be difficult for the rest of us to understand what you mean and respond appropriately, to what you are actually saying. For example, if you'd stuck to the dictionary, I wouldn't have mistakenly thought you were suggesting that all DBPs engage in criminal conspiracy to cheat employees and retirees out of their money.

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However, no DB plan also exists sole on the money that is invested. (snip)
That may be an accurate picture of the current condition of the average pension fund, but it's not so at all times for all funds. I have been keeping an eye on the state of the Seattle pension fund for some time now. It was at the 100% funding level in 2007, and before that, in or around 2001. I'm sure Seattle's is not the only DBP plan that has ever reached the full funding level. There may even be some well managed plans that are there now.

Quote:
So.... since the plan requires state money(money from state taxes) and School District money(money from local taxes), essentially they are using money from people who are working right now to pay the retirement benefits of people who are retired now.

In a ponzi scheme its similar. You use money that you get from investors right now, to pay for the benefits of people who have money in your fund, to prop it up. Whenever money is used to pay for benefits, and that money comes from people in the same real time, then in my opinion is kind of ponzi like. Its not a strict definition. (snip)
Hsiaochu
I think I now see the parallel you are drawing between a pension plan and a ponzi scheme, although IMO it's clearer to describe a plan in that condition as "underfunded" than "ponzi-like". It's an undesirable state of affairs to be sure, but I don't think that it will inevitably result in the plan going broke. If there is more coming in from all sources—investment earnings, employee contributions, and employer match—than is being paid out in benefits, the excess will accumulate in the fund, which will eventually (one hopes) get back to the 100% level.
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