Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2018, 09:46 AM   #121
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
gauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,315
An interesting question regarding State protection of IRAs might be: Which State's laws have jurisdiction in these matters?
  1. The resident state of the defendant?
  2. The resident State of the plaintiff?
  3. The State where the event occurred?
  4. The State where the assets are located (ie Pennsylvania for Vanguard)?

My gut feeling is that the answer is [1] but I have nothing to back this up.

Perhaps its time to shop for an Umbrella policy!
__________________

gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-11-2018, 02:12 PM   #122
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 75
We have a $2M policy for $386 a year. It is one of those thing one hopes they never need to use it. We also don't drive too much.
__________________

Cpadave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 02:14 PM   #123
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by 523HRR View Post
$5mm - $435/yr
That is a great price for that much coverage.
Cpadave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 03:56 PM   #124
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 552
We've got. Costs about $225 per million of coverage yearly. Well worth peace of mind. I think anyone with assets or a half way decent j*b should have at least a million in coverage. Times we live in...
__________________
Living the dream...
FreeBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 06:12 PM   #125
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvalley View Post
I don't have it. Someone correct me if my understanding is wrong but I read somewhere that in a lawsuit your insurance will use your auto/home insurance limits first, anything beyond that is then covered under the umbrella policy ($1M umbrella would include the auto/home limits so it's only providing $600k of coverage if your auto/home covers $400k, if I recall). Since all my big assets are already protected from lawsuits i.e. primary residence, 401k, IRA the only exposure would be to my savings and investment accounts. These accounts are while sizable now, one, they still fall within the auto/home policy coverage limits and two if I'm sued for a bigger amount than that it still won't make or break me.
Even with the umbrella you could be sued for a higher amount than your policy covers so you can keep doing the what-ifs indefinitely.
I called my insurance agent regarding this issue. The umbrella policy is an add-on to your existing auto and/or home. If your auto has $400K liability and you were sued for an auto incident, you'd be covered for $1.4 M. If your home has $200K liability and you were sued for a non-auto incident, you'd be covered for $1.2M.
__________________
I look to the present moment because that's where I live my life.
MJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 06:36 PM   #126
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Marita40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 1,292
2M, and I pay 145. annually for it. Seems to be a lot lower cost than others here.
Marita40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 07:30 PM   #127
Recycles dryer sheets
Kwirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 177
Other than peace of mind, have you benefited from having umbrella insurance?
__________________
Prepare for the future. Everything changes.
Kwirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 07:40 PM   #128
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwirk View Post
Other than peace of mind, have you benefited from having umbrella insurance?
Yes exactly the same way as my home owners, auto, health, disability and travel insurance. It’s insurance.
COcheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 08:45 PM   #129
Recycles dryer sheets
1-31-18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
Wouldn't the 2 main categories of protection be TIRA/401K and Irrevocable Trusts?


Yes, plus real estate held by spouses as tenants by the entireties.

To be thorough, oneís lawyer should scrutinize the list of property that is exempt from execution under state law and the federal bankruptcy code, versus all assets that one owns, and recommend insuring the value of all non-exempt assets. I believe in insuring that amount plus an additional amount to account for near-term growth / appreciation.

While the typical award in a tort case might be relatively small, thatís not why I insure. I insure to protect against tail risk: the $20 million verdict. Also, I am more vulnerable to attack than is John Q. Public due to my position and the possible perception (or hope) that I am rich.

I am reminded often about the poor guy, down on his luck, alcoholic, chronically unemployed, whose fortunes changed drastically for the better when his car was struck by a retired CEO. You donít want to be underinsured if you are that retired CEO.
1-31-18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 06:30 AM   #130
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-31-18 View Post
Yes, plus real estate held by spouses as tenants by the entireties.

To be thorough, oneís lawyer should scrutinize the list of property that is exempt from execution under state law and the federal bankruptcy code, versus all assets that one owns, and recommend insuring the value of all non-exempt assets. I believe in insuring that amount plus an additional amount to account for near-term growth / appreciation.

While the typical award in a tort case might be relatively small, thatís not why I insure. I insure to protect against tail risk: the $20 million verdict. Also, I am more vulnerable to attack than is John Q. Public due to my position and the possible perception (or hope) that I am rich.

I am reminded often about the poor guy, down on his luck, alcoholic, chronically unemployed, whose fortunes changed drastically for the better when his car was struck by a retired CEO. You donít want to be underinsured if you are that retired CEO.
Thanks for the response.
Most of my assets are in a 401K/TIRA account. Nevertheless, I did take out a 2mm policy here in FLA, as the drivers here are not great and I see remnants of many accidents on the highways and intersections.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 07:35 AM   #131
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,679
So to clarify how does ULC protects our 401K and IRA accounts? What I read here is it will pay for Attorney fees if ever sued but how else will it protect that money?

Sorry but I just didn't understand and want to clarify?
street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 08:06 AM   #132
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,567
The concept is that if your state has a law that protects retirement assets, the value of an umbrella policy is reduced because you pay to protect only assets outside the retirement bucket.
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 08:07 AM   #133
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Dash man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Limerick
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by street View Post
So to clarify how does ULC protects our 401K and IRA accounts? What I read here is it will pay for Attorney fees if ever sued but how else will it protect that money?

Sorry but I just didn't understand and want to clarify?

Your 401k is protected by federal law if covered under ERISA, which most are. ERISA pensions are also protected. IRA protection is based on state law.
ULC does not directly protect any specific assets. It protects you from lawsuits up to the amount of the coverage, and the insurance company will use their lawyers to fight the lawsuit. If there is a $5M judgement against you and you have $5M coverage, youíre golden. If you only had $4M coverage, youíd be on the hook for $1M. But they couldnít get your 401k. They could get any assets you have outside of your 401k unless protected by state law.
Dash man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 09:39 AM   #134
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RunningBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwirk View Post
Other than peace of mind, have you benefited from having umbrella insurance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by COcheesehead View Post
Yes exactly the same way as my home owners, auto, health, disability and travel insurance. Itís insurance.
Right. I don't know for sure that I'd do anything different, but it is reassuring to know that I've got the umbrella insurance behind me. Just for example, when I'm skiing, I could accidentally run into someone and they sue me. Maybe I'd think twice about going out if I had to worry about hiring my own lawyers and put my assets at risk first, but with insurance protecting the first part, and their lawyers behind me, I don't think about it at all. Same with leading a trail run or hike.

I still assess whether something is safe before going out myself or taking others out, but what I don't think about is passing on an activity out of concern for being sued.
RunningBum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 11:30 AM   #135
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,679
Thanks again for the clarification I understand it now. I just checked my coverage on the ranch and it is 1M worth of coverage for the place. My vehicles are only at 300K and house at 500K so it may be in my best interest to take out an ULC policy. I wll wee them today and get some prices. Thanks
street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #136
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 264
Some time back, a Facebook friend put up a lengthy post advocating for having an umbrella policy. Her husband was struck by a car on private property and badly injured. Since he was not in his car, his auto policy did not apply. Since it was an accident and not an illness, his health insurance didn't provide coverage. The teenage driver had insurance, but it had a low medical payout. Because it was private property the driver wasn't even issued a citation. They survived mainly because he was in a union and they continued to pay him a disability wage even though it wasn't technically required in this particular circumstance. I may not have all of the details exactly correct as she posted this over a year ago.

This situation, being injured by an uninsured or under-insured person, is why I've considered getting an umbrella policy so I'd like to ask if the above scenario is covered by a standard policy? In other words, coverage for medical expenses, physical therapy, and lost wages (while working) or is that a separate kind of umbrella policy?
NoiseBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 12:59 PM   #137
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 878
In the above example you'd need to make sure the umbrella also has uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage, which costs extra.

E.g., for my household RLI quotes me "Excess UM/UIM coverage with $1 million limits is included at a cost of $600."
ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 01:15 PM   #138
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
Thanks for the response.
Most of my assets are in a 401K/TIRA account. Nevertheless, I did take out a 2mm policy here in FLA, as the drivers here are not great and I see remnants of many accidents on the highways and intersections.

Not to mention the fact that FL has the highest number of uninsured drivers in the nation at 27%. So your umbrella needs to have a UM/UIM rider in case you are hit and badly injured by an uninsured motorist.
Corporateburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 01:29 PM   #139
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoiseBoy View Post
This situation, being injured by an uninsured or under-insured person, is why I've considered getting an umbrella policy so I'd like to ask if the above scenario is covered by a standard policy? In other words, coverage for medical expenses, physical therapy, and lost wages (while working) or is that a separate kind of umbrella policy?

Umbrella policies cover you against liability lawsuits due to negligence on your part. If you get sued for an amount in excess of you underlying auto or home liability limits the umbrella company with cover you up to policy limits.

UM/UIM insurance is a rider offered by some companies to cover you for medical expenses and loss of income etc. In some cases a bad injury may cost 500K or more in rehab and LTC.
Corporateburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 01:31 PM   #140
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 19,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoiseBoy View Post
Since it was an accident and not an illness, his health insurance didn't provide coverage. The teenage driver had insurance, but it had a low medical payout.
Excuse me? What do you mean health insurance doesnít cover accidents?!?!
__________________

__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Umbrella Liability Policy RockyMtn FIRE and Money 48 10-19-2016 05:45 PM
To "umbrella" or not to "umbrella"... aza455 Other topics 107 05-19-2016 09:59 PM
Curious about umbrella liability policy experience H2ODude FIRE and Money 69 04-18-2012 06:55 PM
protecting assets- umbrella/liability insurance? nphx FIRE and Money 22 01-08-2009 10:00 PM
Personal Umbrella versus Personal Excess Liability policies ? Linney FIRE and Money 25 11-28-2006 08:06 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.