How many of you have or are planning to have long term care insurance?

My grandfather spent about 5 years in a nursing home. The cost of the nursing home was split in two parts...

In both cases, the impact of LTC on their estate was minimal.

In the UK there are NHS and private LTC facilities. The NHS facilities are means tested ...

Thanks for the info. I wondered how they handle this issue. It appears financial assistance is available and eligibility requirements may be lower than in the US.

Here, I understand that an elderly person must exhaust all his asset before assistance is provided. This sounds reasonable, in that a person should take care of himself to the furthest extent possible before public assistance is given. However, I have heard of people making efforts to dissipate all their assets so as to appear "poor" to get help. What was intended to be fair is now no longer so.
 
However, I have heard of people making efforts to dissipate all their assets so as to appear "poor" to get help. What was intended to be fair is now no longer so.

I'm sure that most people will at least think about this when they see assets disappearing into the nursing home. There are attorneys who will help middle class people "look poor" according to medicaid rules.

The gov't isn't ignoring this. Medicaid has "look back" rules that count assets that you gave away in the last 3-5 years as if you still own them. They also encourage people to buy LTC insurance through the LTC "partnership" programs.
 
The gov't isn't ignoring this. Medicaid has "look back" rules that count assets that you gave away in the last 3-5 years as if you still own them.

This is similar to the UK. I believe that when DW's parents transferred the ownership of the house to the children that the "look back" window was 10 years.
 
Have LTC insurance. Every year when I pay the premium, I say "Ouch" but then say that's what insurance is for. To cover possible catastrophic events to my finances. No way would I be able to pay for LTC without LTC insurance.
 
My concern is not about death... but leaving a healthy aging spouse financially ruined.


I agree with this statement. This is what happend to my dad. My mom's care drained all their savings and he had very little left for his care. Fortunately, he was really only ill for a year, so didn't need the full time care but for about 9 months, and my brothers and I supplemented his Soc. Sec. and what we could sell of his to keep him going. I've never been so stressed out over anything. I guess that is why we are going to apply this year, for the peace of mind. If I hadn't been through it personally, I wouldn't have worried. Any amount of help would have been a blessing.
 
Before you plunk down the money for long term care you have to check your risk factors . If anyone in your family has had Alzheimer's , Strokes , Debilitating Neurological diseases I would sign up. No one in my family and I have a large family have ever spent more than two months in a nursing facility and the only one that did was my grandfather so as of right now I am self insuring.
 

My concern is not about death... but leaving a healthy aging spouse financially ruined.
By the time I reach 85 I will have spent about $100K for LTC for DW and I (policies have no limit on how many days/years of care). That is a lot of money. But to cover one of us for one year of care, the calculator estimated $275K. Five years would really begin to hurt. Neither scenarios is very likely but I chose the insurance route just in case. An early, extensive illness could have been (still could be) devastating. I want to insure to the extent practicable that neither of us will ever be bankrupted by health care costs and that our kids get a decent pile if the world doesn't crash. To me, paying for approximately 6 months of care that may not be needed over time is preferable to losing it all if I self insure and bet wrong. We used to carry large life policies when we were young as well. The odds were greatly against using them but the impact if one of us had kicked would have been large.
 
We opted for LTC insurance for the peace of mind. Of course, the insurance company in its absurd "wisdom" agreed to underwrite my wife but turned me down due to my chronic disease. That disease will likely kill me before I would need long term care. Yet my wife has had 2 back surgeries and her entire family lived to very ripe old ages, so she will likely need LTC at some point in the distant future. I guess they figure the premiums they collect will add up to more than they'll ultimately spend on her LTC.
 
Having just been through this with my mom, definitely find out what is costs for a nursing home in your area. My mom lives in the SF Bay Area and even a room with 3 people costs close to 100K by the time you add on all the services (they nickle and dime you). Also, it's pretty rare that someone goes in and just stays there. They get sick - go back to the hospital, then back to "re-hab" which is all on the tax payer. Only when the re-hab ends do you start paying again.

The one catch is that a nursing home will not hold the bed for your loved one so if you want them back in the same room, you will have to pay the minimum care figure.

My sister and I really love the board and care - it is so much better - personalized, home cooked meals, etc. The only thing that is really different is that they do not do medical care. So you have to take your loved one to the doctor, pick up the meds, etc. And if your loved one needs an IV or something like that, they will need to be transferred back to the hospital.
 
The advantage of meds in board and care is that you aren't obligated to use an institutional pharmacy (read expensive, won't dispense or deliver on weekends). LTC facilities are REQUIRED to use only institutional pharmacy packaging meds. It is possible to have routine meds mailed to the board and care facility, pick up at the pharmacy otherwise.

Physicians call on patients in nursing homes usually only if it is convenient for THEM. Otherwise I had to transport my frail elderly relatives to the clinic. For many years Mom was in a LTC on a hill about 6 blocks from her physician's office. On a couple occasions we decided to roll her there, the weather was great and she was up for an adventure. It was not easy to roll her home but I needed the exercise.

No easy fix for the IV issue.
 
But to cover one of us for one year of care, the calculator estimated $275K.
Dang, that's a high amount. Is that in future dollars well down the road, or because the DC area is so expensive? In most of the country $200-$250/day covers nursing home care.
 
I certainly understand why people with sizable assets, or a significant other would be interested in this, but I refuse to live an insurance poor lifestyle. I get to do more or less what I want to do because I live modesty, but my land if I bought every insurance your "supposed" to have I would be forced to eat premium statements for food. I drive an old car so I only have to pay liability, HDP for health insurance so I can actually make money on my premium purchase by fully funding my HSA. I understand the defensive characteristics of insurance, but I would rather bet on winning not losing! I plan on continually saving/investing instead of dumping it into a sink hole insurance policy. The state can take my pension check and cash it each month after my assets are gone. I am a very independent person, if I become a financial drain to society, ship me off to the Oregon border and have someone like a Dr. Kervorkian sent there to put me out of my misery, as I don't want to live like that anyway. That all being said, no male in the previous 3 generations of my family has went to an assisted care facility. We drop dead from heart attacks!
 
All this talk about spending years, and even decades, in a disabled state is indeed depressing. Some of my close relatives have been through this. It sure makes me want to "live life more fully" now, which may even help my eventual exit be more expedient, which is what I want anyway.

So, when should I pick up smoking again?
 
The one catch is that a nursing home will not hold the bed for your loved one so if you want them back in the same room, you will have to pay the minimum care figure.

Most LTC policies have a bed reservation benefit that pays that cost for you, FYI.
 
For now I am passing on a LTC policy. I researched them about 3 or so years ago, received some quotes. The frustrating thing for me was that you had to make serious decisions about what you thought you might need...far into the future...even to the extent of how many years of care you "think" you might need, daily per diems...etc. What? How do I know? :blush:

Anyway....I am going the self insured route. Running the calculator provided on this thread....cinched that decision for me. My retirement "income" from all sources should be close to the cost or higher than the 1 year of care on the calculator (my amounts are different from some others posted here). That's without using the house or core financial assets or selling any assets. And if needed, they can be used for back up.

Does the calculator include most or all medical costs and the facility:confused: Anyone know?
 
There's another angle on LTC that folks should watch. The recently passed health care law included a voluntary federal LTCi provision (the CLASS program). It is going to be a big government giveaway to those enrolled in the program unless it is reformed (that's not a political statement or bashing of the law--the present HHS secretary has admitted that the CLASS act is "totally unsustainable" in its present form, which is plainly true). The law will likely be reformed or changed in some way eventually, but sometimes there are considerable benefits to getting a foot in the door of such a broken program. Our legislators and their staffs have proven to be sloppy in their work, and sometimes loopholes turn up.

There are a lot of unknowns about how the CLASS program might work, but the daily benefit is supposed to be a minimum of $50 per day (to be adjusted for inflation), but other sources indicate it might be higher depending on degree of impairment. Premiums haven't been published, but the CRS estimated the average premiums would be about $123 per month. You have to pay premiums for 36 months out of the first 60 months you are enrolled in the program before you qualify for benefits.

What I need to find out--once you qualify for CLASS benefits (paid premiums for 36 months), if you are retired (no longer earning income subject to SS), are you still required to pay CLASS premiums? The legislation is set up to collect premiums via payroll deduction--hmm.

Observations:
-- $50 per day aint a lot, but it's something. It is enough to pay for about 25% of nursing home costs in most parts of the country, and could pay for home visits, etc. It will be indexed for inflation. There are signs that the government will offer higher amounts to those with more impairment. The legislation specifically states that the benefits won't count against the recipient when figuring Medicaid eligibility or other benefits, so Medicaid + CLASS might result in better accommodations. Also, unlike most commercial LTCI, the duration of the benefit is unlimited.
-- Government benefits tend to go up, not down.
-- If the premiums for this program are linked to employment or to income, ERed folks or the "flying under the radar" low income types might get make out.

So, keep your eyes open. Final rules should be set and published in the next year or two. Maybe this program will be worthless, but maybe not. An ER person might do alright, and it will almost certainly be a good deal for folks with risk factors that make it likely they'll need LTC (and therefor can't buy coverage commercially. This adverse selection is the main reason the federal program will probably lose tons of money, whatever the law says about it being self-supporting). With all the goodies being thrown around in DC, it's prudent to grab a net and scoop some up.
 
We haven't purchased LTCi yet. Is anyone concerned that the insurance company holding the policy may go belly up? I seem to recall reading that has already happened in the past few years. Anyone else heard of that happening?
 
This thread is very thought provoking. In our case we may only have to pay for my husband, since I think I will be turned down due to a chronic disease.

One thing I don't take into account, because things change is that my daughter and her husband built a suite on their home for us to come live in, if needed. It us fully handicap accessible, and our son-in- law is a physician. I can't believe they did this for us, but they are both planners and we are all very close. Even if we only use it for occasional visits, we appreciate the idea that we have their support.
 
All this talk about spending years, and even decades, in a disabled state is indeed depressing. Some of my close relatives have been through this. It sure makes me want to "live life more fully" now, which may even help my eventual exit be more expedient, which is what I want anyway.
So, when should I pick up smoking again?
Seriously? Really?

My mother started smoking again when her breast cancer metastasized to her spinal column. That ended badly.
 
All this talk about spending years, and even decades, in a disabled state is indeed depressing. Some of my close relatives have been through this. It sure makes me want to "live life more fully" now, which may even help my eventual exit be more expedient, which is what I want anyway.

So, when should I pick up smoking again?

Smoking meant my Dad could hardly walk for the last 5 years of his life and a lot of pain in his legs due to PAD which can also be caused by lack of exercise.

Lifestyle risk factors that can be prevented or changed:
  • Smoking.
  • Lack of physical activity (a sedentary lifestyle).
  • Obesity.
  • An unhealthy diet.
  • Excess alcohol.
Be careful what you wish for.
 
But to cover one of us for one year of care, the calculator estimated $275K.

Dang, that's a high amount. Is that in future dollars well down the road, or because the DC area is so expensive? In most of the country $200-$250/day covers nursing home care.
On reflection that does seem pretty darn high. I just looked at the calculator someone referenced above. I assume it must include 25-30 years of inflation. So for someone to self insure a year of care (a pretty good cushion and more than most will end up needing) it would be wise to set aside around $50-100K of your portfolio (depending on how you see it performing). Not so intimidating. But I plan to stick with the LTC because I am still concerned with the worst case scenarios that burn through our estate leaving the kids at the mercy of the ruthless every-man-to-himself future that so many people seem determined to put in place. ;)
 
I plan to purchase my LTC insurance from Smith & Wesson.
 
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