How much do state Taxes matter?

[akck]

My brother's wife was from California before moving to Washington when they got married. They were considering moving back until I told him to plan an additional 10% hit to income if they did. That stopped that idea. Fast forward a few years. Their grandkids moved to California. Now they’re looking at buying a condo to be near them when he retires this May. Just goes to show that other reasons are involved in decisions to move.

 

[marko]

She thinks Park City will have more sunny days (actually 229 vs 212 or 8%).

An 8% difference in average sunshine is one of the factors that swings it?
Respectfully, I think you folks are overthinking it.

 

[HadEnuff]

In your situation, state taxes are a non-issue. I think you know that.

What is an issue is having both of you happy in your retirement. Why not sell the home you have, and rent a year in each place. My guess is that you'd both be happy in either place.
You could "give in" and be a hero, then when you want to buy a fast car you can just remind DW of the huge sacrifice you made, to agree to live in Park City.

Anyway, that's would I'd do.

 

[RunningBum]

^^
Good idea. And when you rent a year in WY you can take advantage of 0% taxes and take more income that year.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

Interesting thread. I'm trying to figure out my next retirement destination after DS is out of high school and on to an institution of higher learning.

Is the price of housing comparable between Jackson and Park City? If not, a $1M house in Jackson might be vastly different than that of Park City.

I've done skiing in the Utah area so I am a bit biased toward it (never been to Jackson Hole). Snowbird/Alta are awesome, and having a good sized city (SLC) close helps in terms of non-resort-like prices for everyday living. Plus having a major airport close is an advantage.

I will try not to take over your thread here, interesting stuff.

 

[up_north]

I appreciate your posting your spreadsheet. I have read a lot of articles about the relative attractiveness of various states in terms of tax rates, but not a single one of the articles has tried to quantify the matter. Of course one's specific income, spending, and property value determine the bottom line, but your analysis makes it clear that the difference may well boil down to the income tax contrast.

 

[ERD50]

Average temp
Jackson 39.5
Park City 42.05

6% warmer. Shhhh don't tell my wife.

Temperatures and % don't work that way. As an example, if one was an average of 2° F and the other 4° F, would you say it was 100% warmer there? Or what if one was 1° F, and the other 0° F? Infinitely warmer, or divide by zero error?! You need to convert to an absolute scale (Kelvin or Rankine), but that's only useful for scientific purposes, people react to temperature differently.

And does $1M buy the same house in each area? $250K income in retirement? Sounds like your nest egg is big enough that the $12K difference shouldn't matter.

Your wife is going to win this one (but you already knew that, right?).

-ERD50

 

[joeea]

All else aside, how much impact do you think this has on say 40 years of retirement?

40 years of higher income taxes is a small price to pay for 40 years of a happy wife.

At least it is for me.

Your mileage may vary. Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear. Past performance is no guarantee of future success. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the management. Use at your own risk. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[ripper1]

I am considering moving from Illinois to Either Wyoming or Utah. As far as I can tell taxes in Utah are around:

Park City
Property 0.46%
State Income 5%
Sales Tax 7.95%

and Wyoming:

Jackson
Property 0.67%
State Income 0%
Sales Tax 6%

All else aside, how much impact do you think this has on say 40 years of retirement?

Something to consider that Wyoming does not tax social security or pensions and other types of retirement. Whereas Utah will take SS and all other forms of retirement income.

 

[Huston55]

OK, now the full picture is coming together. You want to live in Wyoming, DW wants to live in Park City. So you built a spreadsheet showing how it will cost $12K more per year to live in Park City to justify your selection. And you were hoping the forum would tell you that state taxes REALLY matter in retirement to help build your case.

Exactly my friend, exactly

Either you’ve not been married very long or, you’ve not been paying attention.

40 years of higher income taxes is a small price to pay for 40 years of a happy wife.

At least it is for me.

[/SIZE]

^^^
What he said.*


*From a guy who moved back to California for FIRE. Esposa feliz, vida feliz!

 

[Souschef]

This picture was taken in February from the porch of our motel

 

[sterlingmossy]

In your situation, state taxes are a non-issue. I think you know that.

What is an issue is having both of you happy in your retirement. Why not sell the home you have, and rent a year in each place. My guess is that you'd both be happy in either place.
You could "give in" and be a hero, then when you want to buy a fast car you can just remind DW of the huge sacrifice you made, to agree to live in Park City.

Anyway, that's would I'd do.

Haha, good thinking Well we leave for a Month in Park City 3/1 so that is a start. I will let you know what car I buy.

 

[Luck_Club]

Average temp
Jackson 39.5
Park City 42.05

6% warmer. Shhhh don't tell my wife.

OK I get it you like to ski. But seriously at some point the cold sucks! My DW wanted to return to a four season area in our 20's but now in our 50's is counting the days to snow bird to warmer weather.

Spend the million but split it between two climates. smaller houses in each location, but you will be better served. I bet as you age the skiing will diminish in comparison to the warmer place.

My 2cents

 

[Souschef]

I used to ski Utah for a number of years. The picture I posted was taken on a tour where we also went to Park City. I have attached the trip story
The climates may be similar, and jackson is certainly beautiful, BUT in Park City you are 45 minutes from SLC airport. From there you can be in sunny Southern California in an hour. You can also fly to Cabo or the Mexican Riviera if it get too cold.
We wish you the best wherever you decide.

 

[RunningBum]

OK I get it you like to ski. But seriously at some point the cold sucks! My DW wanted to return to a four season area in our 20's but now in our 50's is counting the days to snow bird to warmer weather.

Spend the million but split it between two climates. smaller houses in each location, but you will be better served. I bet as you age the skiing will diminish in comparison to the warmer place.

My 2cents

Why would you want a snow bird home if you want to ski?

The beauty of being a ski bum is that you appreciate the winter cold for skiing, and in the summer you are in the cooler mountains.

If skiing stops being a passion, you can move at that time. A $1M house at a ski resort doesn't necessarily mean large, it is probably more due to location with easier access to the slopes.

 

[sterlingmossy]

I used to ski Utah for a number of years. The picture I posted was taken on a tour where we also went to Park City. I have attached the trip story
The climates may be similar, and jackson is certainly beautiful, BUT in Park City you are 45 minutes from SLC airport. From there you can be in sunny Southern California in an hour. You can also fly to Cabo or the Mexican Riviera if it get too cold.
We wish you the best wherever you decide.

Thanks, great write up and pics. Love yellowstone. My wife and I did a 10 day horse pack trip there last summer and didn't see a soul.

 

[sterlingmossy]

OK I get it you like to ski. But seriously at some point the cold sucks! My DW wanted to return to a four season area in our 20's but now in our 50's is counting the days to snow bird to warmer weather.

Spend the million but split it between two climates. smaller houses in each location, but you will be better served. I bet as you age the skiing will diminish in comparison to the warmer place.

My 2cents

Thanks. I do like to ski but that isn't the main reason I want to move to a ski town. The main reason is to surround myself with active, outdoors people year round. I have spent plenty of time in Florida (my MIL has a place in Naples) and I find the people and the pace way too slow. I am worried that it will rub off on me. That said, ask me again when I am 70 with arthritis!

 

[sterlingmossy]

Either you’ve not been married very long or, you’ve not been paying attention.

26 Years married, can't have been paying attention!

 

[DrRoy]

In your situation, state taxes are a non-issue. I think you know that.

What is an issue is having both of you happy in your retirement. Why not sell the home you have, and rent a year in each place. My guess is that you'd both be happy in either place.

+1. It is a major decision. Try them both on for size before you decide.