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Old 01-18-2015, 03:57 PM   #61
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My premium is $368 for 1 Million policy.
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That's about what my premium is for $1M, carrier is Pacific Specialty out of Menlo Park, CA. Ins broker found them for me. They require underlying 100/300 limits on auto and $300K underlying homeowners policy.
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Old 01-18-2015, 04:30 PM   #62
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That's about what my premium is for $1M, carrier is Pacific Specialty out of Menlo Park, CA. Ins broker found them for me. They require underlying 100/300 limits on auto and $300K underlying homeowners policy.
We pay $176 a year for $1M, two people, similar limits on home and auto, no boats, pool or higher risk vehicles.
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Old 01-18-2015, 05:22 PM   #63
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Do you have to have the car, homeowners and umbrella from the same carrier?

That is, do the umbrella carrier require that they also get the car and homeowner too?
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:10 PM   #64
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Do you have to have the car, homeowners and umbrella from the same carrier?

That is, do the umbrella carrier require that they also get the car and homeowner too?
I have all three from the same carrier, but I shop insurance that way as it seems to be less expensive and hopefully easier to coordinate if I filed a complex claim.
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:43 PM   #65
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We pay $176 a year for $1M, two people, similar limits on home and auto, no boats, pool or higher risk vehicles.
Yea but I'm in Lost Angeles, where they sue you for breathing...
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:35 AM   #66
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Do you have to have the car, homeowners and umbrella from the same carrier?

That is, do the umbrella carrier require that they also get the car and homeowner too?
Most carriers will not insure Umbrella without auto and home.
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:17 AM   #67
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Yea but I'm in Lost Angeles, where they sue you for breathing...
I'll trade you for Michigan winters.........
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:55 AM   #68
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My personal belief is that insurance is to protect against unforeseen circumstances. It is the expense that rises to the top of my "don't like" chart. But it is a necessary evil.

On the liability side of the equation I carry a 10MM umbrella which did not need to be specifically underwritten through Chubb Insurance. Chubb is able to combine all of our properties (except two) into a single policy. The exception is a beach house and a rental property at the beach in NJ. They could not be combined because of the need for flood insurance and excess flood insurance so they are stand alone policies. Both were damaged in hurricane Sandy. I complained for years about the high premiums Chubb charges but they were wonderful in dealing with those claims so I will stay and pay the higher premiums (which I estimate at 15-20%/year). The umbrella covers multiple properties, cars, boats, motorcycles everything. As an aside my auto, motorcycle and boat underlying coverage IS NOT THROUGH CHUBB but they provide the umbrella. On the property side (also through Chubb) I raised the deductibles years ago to $10,000.00 which resulted in a substantial savings. The increase to a $20,000.00 deductible did not result in a substantial savings so I did not go higher....or I would have. High deductibles are not for everyone but they work for us. If the claim is above the deductible amount, the deductible does not apply to the claim with Chubb. I just cannot make a claim below the deductible amount. I will not be making a claim for under $10,000.00.
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:50 AM   #69
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I also have no legal background...here are a few other things to consider:

....

But if the lawyer can show that you (the homeowner) knew that you had a soft spot in the floor, or were somehow negligent in maintaining your house, there could be some liability exposure. ...

As noted, I'm not a lawyer or insurance industry person, but I do know that there is a very bad result if an insurer can prove you were negligent in your actions. And if negligence is involved, some liability protection could be negated. Check your umbrella policy. I say this based on the LLC corporate designation - legally, an LLC shields your personal assets from the activity of the business...UNLESS someone can prove [PERSONAL] negligence .... In that scenario, your LLC does not shield your personal assets. In the same way, there might be some catches where insurance policy may/may not cover criminal activity or negligence. And I don't know what may define "criminal activity" - perhaps a certain level of felony?


[/I]

...
True, intentional misconduct, which is likely criminal as well, typically isn't covered. But, essentially all liability insurance covers negligence. Usually, if you aren't negligent, there would be no liability in the first place.

Consider the physician or attorney who is sued for malpractice, or the driver who rear ends a dumptruck and is sued for denting it. Negligence is the issue in each case. This is true for just about any liability situation faced by individuals. (There are areas of strict liability, of course, but they are outliers) This is the reason for insurance--to spread the risk of having to pay a, unexpected, amount for negligence. (A pediatrician doing nasty things to his/her patients or a divorce attorney tanking H's case because he is in bed with W are likely to not be covered, because their misconduct is other than negligent.)

The LLC (and corporation) situation is distinguishable. It is not a matter of insurance law, it is a matter of agency not removing responsibility for direct culpability. For example, any mop-wielding employee of, say, Walmart could be personally sued for negligently failing to post a "wet floor" sign, which causes a customer to slip and fall. Doesn't usually happen because of pocket depth. OTOH, when you have a small LLC and the mop-wielder is the sole owner, his/her personal negligence is going to be more important--especially if the LLC is underinsured.
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:47 AM   #70
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Most carriers will not insure Umbrella without auto and home.
From the same carrier or from other carriers?
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:15 PM   #71
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We pay $176 a year for $1M, two people, similar limits on home and auto, no boats, pool or higher risk vehicles.
Very similar here. The last few years I've been paying $200 per year for a 1m policy. It doesn't seem to matter what vechicles I drive since my daily drivers are all late models and include a couple of 4 wheel drive trucks and a C6 Corvette. Interesting though, the insurance on my Vette, with the same levels of coverage, is cheaper than the insurance on any of my other cars or trucks. Probably has something to do with being in my 60's rather than my 20's.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:29 PM   #72
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Your net worth is irrelevant. Or at least not directly relevant. You aren't insuring the balance. If you have x million of insurance and are sued for x+1, you have a million of your own money at risk.

If there's any rule of thumb about how much liability insurance to have, it would be 'what might i be sued for?' Obviously a hard question to answer.
I completely disagree. Umbrella coverage is in essence insuring against a catastrophic loss. How much can you lose? Your net worth. You could lose less, but you can't lose more, realistically. I have $10 million, and this is short by a fair amount of my net worth. I would like to have more, but this would require going into the re-insurance market, which is a hassle and quite expensive I've been told.
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:25 PM   #73
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But the judgement can be equal to your liability coverage plus your net worth and you're still broke. That's my point when i say theres nothing magical about insuring just for your net worth. Umbrella policies are decidedly *not* net worth insurance. They just move your assets up the capital structure.
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:21 PM   #74
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I completely disagree. Umbrella coverage is in essence insuring against a catastrophic loss. How much can you lose? Your net worth. You could lose less, but you can't lose more, realistically. I have $10 million, and this is short by a fair amount of my net worth. I would like to have more, but this would require going into the re-insurance market, which is a hassle and quite expensive I've been told.

I was told the same thing. That umbrella over 10MM would be reinsurance through Lloyds which is much more expensive.
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:42 PM   #75
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But the judgement can be equal to your liability coverage plus your net worth and you're still broke. That's my point when i say theres nothing magical about insuring just for your net worth. Umbrella policies are decidedly *not* net worth insurance. They just move your assets up the capital structure.
As pointed out earlier its net worth less 401ks and in some states IRAs, and also in some states your home equity. Also the remainder of your pension, and SS. So it really is net worth reduced by these things.
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:48 PM   #76
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Again, you are not insuring those assets. You're just raising the amount of liability required to put them at risk.
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:56 PM   #77
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From the same carrier or from other carriers?
It is up to the umbrella carrier. I was given a quote for an umbrella from Company B (large ubiquitous carrier) when I had a vehicle insured by Company A. They wanted to see Company A's policy and Company B's quote was contingent on raising the liability limits. Just to simplify things I changed all the policies to Company B.
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:03 PM   #78
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I'll trade you for Michigan winters.........
No thanks, I'd be the one always spinning out the car and causing those 200 car pile ups. And in that case, no amount of ins would cover me...
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:23 PM   #79
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I have a $2M Geico umbrella @ $333/yr. For having no high risk toys/activities (I have not been employed as a professional athlete in the last 10 years. That was one of the questions ), maybe that rate is a little high, but I just recently insured my cars (including a new 2015 purchase) through Geico for substantially less than what any other company quoted. So, it's all good. Well... it's all INSURANCE... However you may feel about that.
Homeowners is through MetLife.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:30 PM   #80
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+1

$4mm for under $500 annual premium.
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As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
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