How much risk do I really need to take?

Nords....

Just a point from me on your long post... you seem to infer that Buffet is in for the short term and is timing the market... from what he says (and even said when buying the railroad), he believes in America... in the long term... so he is not worried in losing in a short term, but wants to earn in the long run...

This is what I think you are trying to tell the OP... that the long term is the way we should be investing...
Do either of you or anyone else understand why he's paying a 30% premium on the price he could have bought the stock for before he made the buyout offer?

It's like going to the store and TVs are on sale -- SO you say I'll take them all - if I can pay 30% extra?
 
Do either of you or anyone else understand why he's paying a 30% premium on the price he could have bought the stock for before he made the buyout offer?

It's like going to the store and TVs are on sale -- SO you say I'll take them all - if I can pay 30% extra?

Rumor has it that BNSF mgmt thought the offer was too low... :rolleyes:
 
Rumor has it that BNSF mgmt thought the offer was too low... :rolleyes:
Sure say that after the price goes up to within a penny of the offer... But if he kept buying it at the old price - without all the hoopla - he could have had a lot more for a lot less.
 
Do either of you or anyone else understand why he's paying a 30% premium on the price he could have bought the stock for before he made the buyout offer?

It's like going to the store and TVs are on sale -- SO you say I'll take them all - if I can pay 30% extra?


Kind of off subject here.. but hey, we have hijacked many a threads...


IF you want to buy a company... the whole thing... then you have to induce all of the holders to be willing to give up their shares... paying market price is not enough to get everyone on board...

Also, you want the management to recommend that this is the 'best' they can expect. Either that our you go 'hostile'... a hostile bid is usually not good for either party....

And the SEC has rules about your intentions... I am not schooled in the rules, but I believe if you own 5% of a company, you have to follow certain rules on buying stock... so everyone knows what you are doing... he can not buy 20% of the company on the cheap and then offer the premium....


As for the bid being to 'low'... Yahoo holders found out that sometimes it is better to take what is offered than to push to hard... especially if there is only one buyer making a bid...
 
Sorry about that Tim - we relinquish your thread to it's previous stated objective - risk adverse investing -
I try to buy stocks, w/o paying a 30% premium over price whenever I can.:LOL:
 
Tim,
A great OP with good questions. I can't add much to the great advice/points-to-ponder you've been given by Nords and others. But, here goes:
-- I'm in almost the exact situation you anticipate you'll be in when you retire--our retirement is based on the USAF retirement check every month and the money we saved. I retired from the USAF about 5 years ago, so I'm still relatively new to this stuff. My AA is approx 75% equities, 10% cash, and 15% bonds. Why are we so heavy into stocks?
--- It's not that we are trying to get rich. As you have observed, we don't need to hit a home run, we just need to consistently stay ahead of inflation. You've got a long time horizon ahead of you, and stocks have a long track record of providing the type of growth (not steady growth, but growth) that stays ahead of inflation to a degree that will allow a reasonable withdrawal rate (3-4%).
--- Because we can. As I see it, the relative stability of our pension takes the place of a big chunk of cash/bonds in our AA. If the market crashes and we lost every nickel, I'd cry a lot but we could get by. We'd eat a lot of beans and bread, but we could do it. Conversely, if Uncle Sam gave me that retirement pay as a lump sum, I'd probably have to invest it in something with a very stable value (even at lower returns) to get the same stability. While pay in the military has gotten a lot better than it was 40 years ago, you still won't get rich, and pay lags the civilian sector in most areas. Your pension helps compensate for this. You'd probably have more money to plunk into a 401K if you worked in the civilian market. And, you'd need to put more of it in conservative investments because you'd lack the COLA'd retirement pay. In my case I believed that I could afford to take the risk of being in stocks, and that I needed to do it.
--- To diversify risk: There's a potential that the government is gonna owe a lot of people a lot of things over the coming decades. Taxes are probably going to go up. Some benefits are going to go down. So, if the promises aren't kept in their entirety, it's good to have a robust alternate source of monthly income. If you "play it safe" in your earning years and give up the higher yields historically offered by stocks, you may not be able to generate that make-up monthly income. I agree that stocks don't appear to be cheap right now--and you can try your hand at market timing if you like. It didn't work for me, ad it doesn't work for most people.

As Gumby mentioned, your ideas on how much cash you'll need may change as you get older. Mine did. Kids, college, hobbies, house, travel. I've still got one foot in the rat race as a result. We could get by without the extra income, but we choose not to. If I'd selected a more conservative investment philosophy over the last 25 years, we'd have fewer options.

Put the money in good investments and don't obsess over it. I scarcely looked at my stash over a period of 20 years, I just did my annual rebalancing. All the money came out via payroll deduction and I never missed it and we barely thought about it. Lots of dps in values and meteoric rises--just like the book said we should expect. If I'd tried to time things and make daily adjustments I'm virtually sure we'd be worse off now.

I realize that some of these points contradict others (e.g. if the government might not keep their promises on my pension, doesn't that mean I should take LESS risk with my nest egg?). I don't attribute this to faulty reasoning, but to a valuable ability to diversify my logic strands so that they have negative correlation with each other.;)
 
Nords....
Just a point from me on your long post... you seem to infer that Buffet is in for the short term and is timing the market... from what he says (and even said when buying the railroad), he believes in America... in the long term... so he is not worried in losing in a short term, but wants to earn in the long run...
This is what I think you are trying to tell the OP... that the long term is the way we should be investing...
My editing window is closed out on that post. I'm trying to imply that Buffett pretty much ignored all the doom&gloom and went way long, including borrowing $8B over the next three years, to buy a business that most would regard as hopelessly second-millenium. Yet he's probably sleeping soundly at night.

He's already obligated to the long term-- 10 years!

Why are we so heavy into stocks?
Because we can. As I see it, the relative stability of our pension takes the place of a big chunk of cash/bonds in our AA.
Years of considering that question, and still that's about the best answer I can come up with.

The value of the steady military paycheck, the COLA pension, the cheap healthcare... it all adds up to a huge slug of gilt-edged government bonds in any retirement portfolio. Putting the TSP, the IRAs, and the taxable investments into 100% stocks would still be less than 30-70 stock/bonds overall. And if there's home equity & rental real estate then the stock percentage is even less.

Maybe we should just pay ourselves $100,000/year and donate the rest of our investment portfolios to the Gates Foundation over the next 20 years. Then we could spend 14 hours a day reading about investing and playing bridge over the Internet...
 
"How many people get through 10+ years but opt out before 20? I don't know."

I did. Left at the 7 yr point. Tried to get a job in my field in the civilian world but timing was off and reentered the AF with the idea of going to retirement. After 4 more years could not stand it and made another exit. This time was able to get hired by a major airline, never looked back and took early retirement last year.
 
I have to admit I agree with Sam theoretically, but it is definitely the throw the kid in the deep end and see what happens approach to learning to swim.
You could simply put everything you have and every extra dollar you ever earn into the market and then just suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Because you have an expected pension in ~18yrs. that will serve as your life preserver, no risk is too great... You asked how much risk you need to take and the answer is you probably don't have to risk anything OR could risk everything if you wanted. Like Sam, I already have my pension and could loose all my investments and still survive quite comfortably (thank you). But I don't need to - Bill gates won't be getting donations from me...
 
--- While pay in the military has gotten a lot better than it was 40 years ago, you still won't get rich, and pay lags the civilian sector in most areas. Your pension helps compensate for this. You'd probably have more money to plunk into a 401K if you worked in the civilian market. And, you'd need to put more of it in conservative investments because you'd lack the COLA'd retirement pay.

Actually, I am amazed at how much parity there is in pay now - I am a Reservist and have a civilian job (well, now I'm self-employed). The military compensates quite a bit tax-free that is not compensated on the outside. Add in the ability to have TSP plus the pension, and it's hard to beat.

I second Nords post regarding assessing what you want in your life. Some people are cut out for the military and some aren't. Some are better off part-time and some full-time. Know yourself and you'll be able to make better decisions. AA is important and you do see how different streams of income and where they come from are part of your AA - a COLA'd pension is similar to holding bonds or some other conservative investment, so then to balance, one would allocate some of their resources into more risky ventures.

The key, though, is to save money and live below your means. Even if you don't retire until a normal age or later, you will still have the peace of mind regarding finances that others who don't live below their means have---the ability to cover and emergency, do something they want or walk away for a bit of time without stress. The ultimate is financial independence, but getting close counts, too.

Good luck with your decisions.
 
Thank you all again for the replies. Special thanks to Nords for that remarkably in-depth response.

When I opened a Roth IRA in early 2008 and tossed in my first few thousand dollars my attitude was, "Why not just put everything into emerging markets?" Perhaps a little too aggressive... Since then, extreme market volatility and the realization that I have increasingly more at stake is what made me backpedal. All the replies here tell me that now I've probably let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction.

The most convincing argument that several of you have given is essentially that "risk" doesn't always mean "volatility." A portfolio with only bonds is probably less volatile than one which includes stocks, but it may put us at an even greater risk of losing purchasing power (and thus failing to reach our financial goals). I ran some numbers and found that this has indeed happened before: from 1976 to 1982, when interest rates were rising, the real return on bond funds was about -3% (annually) while the real return for the S&P 500 (with dividends reinvested) was about +1.5%.

I'll have to think more about the precise asset mix that is appropriate for us, but I'm willing to accept that balance and diversification are necessary to truly manage our "risk."

Now I have some other questions I'd like to discuss, some of which we touched on here, but I think I will start a new thread for those.

Tim
 
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