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Old 05-10-2019, 05:37 PM   #61
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We've been retired for about 15 years now and are close to your ages (DH is older than DW by a few more years) and percentages in various types of accounts. My comfort level for withdrawals until SS is 3%. As in your case DH will delay until 70 (assuming he lives that long) and spending will ratchet up somewhat at that time although taxes will also. Our goal is to maximize the survivor benefit for DW and maintain a healthy balance for unforeseen events and long-term care if needed.

In your exact circumstances we would now spend $75,000 per year and would plan to ratchet that up by the amount of SS payments as they become available. We have occasionally made an exception to the spending 'limit' in a year when we have purchased a new vehicle which happens about every 7 years for us.

Although we don't do carve-outs for specific items we do stay on the conservative side with regard to withdrawals knowing that certain expenses will be lumpy.

Healthcare is indeed the wildcard. In our case DH is now on Medicare but DW relies on ACA insurance and as I'm sure you're well aware the situation with it is tenuous at best. Our greatest fear is a serious illness for DW as treatment options can be limited. We can handle the large deductibles but not having good treatment available through the insurance is beyond our control.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:40 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by W2R View Post
+1 I think you would be fine spending $120K per year.

But I'd only spend that much if I felt I was enjoying the results and getting some value out of it. To me that's an awful lot to spend.

In reality I'd probably end up spending $60K or so just because that's the type of lifestyle I am used to living.
+10 Exactly

$100K for a car gotta be an ego thing, my most expensive car cost ever cost me $22K (one year old Hyundia Santa Fe about a year ago)
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:50 PM   #63
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As for the spending part, I'm pretty simple so I checked FireCalc (leaving out a bit of income for a safety factor) and kept increasing the spending until it stopped being 100% success.

We currently spend about 1/2 of that number, without missing anything, taking 2-4 trips per year and none less than 10 days.

Emotionally, it's just a bit hard still to even think of spending the full 100% , but this is something we are working on.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:21 PM   #64
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100k/yr, but I'm conservative financially.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:44 PM   #65
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Remember to consider not just what your spouse's eldercare costs might be, but also your own. You, too, will age and being alone, your need for care could be considerable.

Nursing home/Skilled Care/Convalescent/Memory Care were all charged at the same price at the dozen or so senior facilities we've looked at so far. These per-month costs vary widely, but there's a very good ranking by cost/city on this website. If you haven't looked at facilities near you, this at least gives you a ballpark to help estimate:
https://www.retirementliving.com/wha...sing-home-cost

In our state, every single facility we have talked to, raises their prices every July. EVERY ONE OF THEM, profit and non-profit. Increases are usually 2-4%.

Medicare studies show that on average, 80% of eldercare health costs come in the last two years of life. Also, even disregarding that Medicare is rapidly running out of funds, there are many items Medicare does not cover. On average, Medicare ends up paying only 51% of total senior healthcare costs.
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Different take on spending
Old 05-10-2019, 06:49 PM   #66
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Different take on spending

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Originally Posted by ImaCheesehead View Post
What would you feel comfortable spending annually if you were in the following situation and retiring in 6 months? We have no children so have no need leave any legacy. We also have no LTC coverage so plan on paying those expenses from assets if necessary.

DH 62
DW 57

Every opinion welcome!
I have a different take.

I'd spend what you currently spend +/- fun things you really want to do, on yourself. With the extra, and by the looks of it there will be extra, I'd invest and spend significant time and effort finding a niece, nephew or second cousin that you can get along with while alive, that you can count on to take care of you when the S*it hits the fan.

After you develop that relationship, and the end is close (health scares), clue them in to their place in your estate plans. Advise them on what you would want done, and provide them authority to implement your wishes. You should provide a springing power of attorney, and maybe even decide on a "care" fee they will receive.

My father had a great social network, until he didn't. In the end the last few years, you will need someone to manage the care takers on your behalf.

From personal experience the only one who will make the sacrifice will be family. I've heard second hand from people who experienced elder care institutions with scabies, selling dentures on e-bay, and feeding patients whole apples to the patients. Not to mention the phony two person assist requiring a $500 per day adder to the nursing hoe fee. That will blow some doe for you. So unless someone is watching out for you who has the authority to move you, and some reasonable incentive to do so, you are left to the kindness of the corporate elder care industry.
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More conservative than most
Old 05-13-2019, 04:41 PM   #67
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More conservative than most

I would conserve more of my own assets by taking SS early, and spending $40-50K in addition to that income coming in. Granted, I am more conservative than most, but that is how I would do it, and have been doing it for the last five years (currently 65; started taking SS at 63).
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:57 PM   #68
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Your plan looks good. $120K/yr looks about right.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:11 PM   #69
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...but he is just never going to be active to an old age. If there is any fun to be had in retirement he needs to start it up. We have a good life now, but I don’t want him to be the guy that only ends up with a couple of years of good retirement after working so hard for so long
So, this throws a different light on the question. Assuming you would like to spend as much as possible earlier in retirement, and then ramp your spending down as health deteriorates, I'd consider taking out more now (assets don't have to last to 100 for both DH and DW, as most here are assuming).

Here's an example to evaluate:

1) Years 0 to 10: $150K annual spend
2) Years 10 to 15: $95 annual spend
3) One survivor: $75K annual spend

I've been thinking of a phased retirement approach to spending, with the idea of spending $110K/year for the first 8 years (renting), then buy a house with
26% of initial assets, then cut spending to ~$89K per year if necessary until SS kicks in.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:55 PM   #70
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Of the investment total, I am thinking to carve out $300,000 for a SS “bucket” allow 40k spending from age 62.5 to age 70 when his SS actually kicks in. I am taking my SS at 62 but not including it in retirement calculations as it will be only 12k per year. To be honest, his health is not great and at 62 he has already outlived his parents and sister. Assuming I outlive him, whatever I get will be some “frosting” and I don’t want to count on it.
Sorry for the slight change in direction... I am 49 and have been thinking to take Social Security as early as possible. I do not think I am a good bet to outlive the average...

I see that you have at least considered the same concerns with DH and I wonder why you would choose to not claim his social security until age 70 if his health is poor? I am curious so that I can help make my own decisions in 12 years or so. It seems that it would be better to take it as early as possible. If the worst happened and DH would pass, his benefit would be reduced to 50% for you, correct?

Is the reason that you have enough in retirement accounts to live on, so you are able to maximize YOUR long term stable income from SS through this method?

Thanks for any insight.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:23 PM   #71
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Sorry for the slight change in direction... I am 49 and have been thinking to take Social Security as early as possible. I do not think I am a good bet to outlive the average...

I see that you have at least considered the same concerns with DH and I wonder why you would choose to not claim his social security until age 70 if his health is poor? I am curious so that I can help make my own decisions in 12 years or so. It seems that it would be better to take it as early as possible. If the worst happened and DH would pass, his benefit would be reduced to 50% for you, correct?

Is the reason that you have enough in retirement accounts to live on, so you are able to maximize YOUR long term stable income from SS through this method?

Thanks for any insight.
The SS survivor benefit is 100% of what the deceased spouse is receiving at time of death (not 50%). Once the survivor benefit begins DW would not be eligible to draw any additional amount from either her or her DH's account. So DH waiting until age 70 to claim would maximize DW's monthly survivor benefit amount. If DH were to die prior to age 70 DW would draw the amount that DH would have received had he applied for his benefit on the day he died, so would again maximize her monthly benefit.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:07 PM   #72
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The SS survivor benefit is 100% of what the deceased spouse is receiving at time of death (not 50%). Once the survivor benefit begins DW would not be eligible to draw any additional amount from either her or her DH's account. So DH waiting until age 70 to claim would maximize DW's monthly survivor benefit amount. If DH were to die prior to age 70 DW would draw the amount that DH would have received had he applied for his benefit on the day he died, so would again maximize her monthly benefit.
Thanks for the information. I appreciate the response and the discussion in this thread.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:52 PM   #73
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The SS survivor benefit is 100% of what the deceased spouse is receiving at time of death (not 50%). Once the survivor benefit begins DW would not be eligible to draw any additional amount from either her or her DH's account. So DH waiting until age 70 to claim would maximize DW's monthly survivor benefit amount. If DH were to die prior to age 70 DW would draw the amount that DH would have received had he applied for his benefit on the day he died, so would again maximize her monthly benefit.


Oh, cool, my thread was in the newsletter so I got a nice bump!

This SS strategy was exactly what I was thinking. If we do the 300k carve out we can start “spending” SS money while we wait for it to actually start up. There is always the option to change our minds at any point and start his claim.

I am going to go through the thread and average the spend numbers just to see what it comes out to, but the current majority say over 100k. I cannot IMAGINE spending that much per year until we get to later in life and consistent high/very high medical expenses become more likely. Maybe we will just both keel over one day and not have to deal with long term care. The stories that get shared in this forum and others are scary and I would prefer to put off too much contemplation of them.

I have arranged for a younger extended family member to “watch over me” in the event I do need it. They know I have a plan to eventually move to a CCRC and will hopefully make sure all is well there. They don’t know our current NW or that I am planning on leaving most of what is left to them (if there is any) and they are kind people with good hearts. I believe I can trust in them.

Thank you to all that replied. Confidence level in having enough assets is high! Just need to focus more on the medical insurance part, and of course, shopping for my $100,000 car........
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #74
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and of course, shopping for my $100,000 car........
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