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Old 09-08-2019, 09:16 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by pj.mask View Post
I don’t think anyone in this thread who believe luck plays a big role in success had even suggested that hard work was not a required part of the recipe for success.

The argument is:

Can some people work hard and not succeed due to luck? Are some people not capable of success (maybe they work hard but don’t have the intellect to work in something with high compensation)

Or

EVERYONE, no matter how dumb, how bad they were raised/educated (short of the 0.001% with sever handicaps) are capable of reaching the top 5% in success if they just work hard - but they just choose not to.
I will always give the benefit of the doubt to the folks on this site in this regard. However, there is a significant and growing segment of society who do use the “you were lucky, you were privileged, you didn’t build that” line to diminish people’s hard work and success. It starts as you state above but often progresses to “support this program, law, or policy because if you don’t then you must hate poor people” or whatever protected class is being discussed. I even saw it once in this thread, in an attempted sarcastic post.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:29 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by jimbee View Post
It's been quoted before, but here it is again.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
Is that along the same lines of I would rather be lucky than good? Probably not. Of course given the choice, most of us would like to be lucky and good I believe.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:30 AM   #183
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I was lucky to be born with such a big brain, and so smart the likes never seen before. Believe me!
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:40 AM   #184
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I am of the anti-luck crowd, and even I know there is some luck to it.

Lucky to be healthy, lucky to be above average IQ, lucky to be shown that there are options other than prison, lucky I did not get some GF that wanted to get married and have kids right away, etc. Most these are just choices in the end, and you may not know that there are other choices.

There was a time I assumed that everyone got at least one speeding ticket a year, likely two. Never figured that it ever made sense to buy a new bicycle, when you could buy a stolen one. If someone left their car open, it was OK to take stuff. Once I found out the way people are 'supposed' to live, it made life a lot easier.

There are people that think that attitude is not for them, and they continue to buck society. They want to live in their own system, and expect that they can achieve the outcome of the system that they despise.

Once you the the vision of success, then it is entirely up to you. A person with good luck, also has bad luck. Jobs they did not get, divorces, jobs they got fired from, etc. Health scrapes, girls that do not want you, dogs that die, trucks that won't start, etc.

In the end, it is the learning and perseverance that makes it happen, not luck. That what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:54 AM   #185
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Good luck, bad luck, or just no luck whatsoever, I don't know, but this following couple will not make it to the top 5%. I am sure of this.

Quote:
Michigan couple that won a half-million dollars in the state lottery just three years ago are now being accused of burglarizing multiple homes in the last few months to steal valuables from the elderly.
See: https://www.newsweek.com/lottery-win...-spree-1457948


The above article has more cases to tell of some (unlucky?) people who made it to the top 5%, but could not stay there.

PS. I do think a lot of Bahamians are unlucky. They are born in a hurricane-prone location with no place to run to when disasters strike. And if they want to relocate, it is not as easy as the FIRE'd people here who simply catch a flight with their networth stashed away in a brokerage account.

Quote:
In 2017, Ronnie Music Jr. of Georgia was sentenced to 21 years in prison after he invested part of his $3 million lottery winnings in a crystal meth ring.

In 2012, Michigan lottery winner Amanda Clayton was arrested for allegedly collecting food stamps and public health insurance despite winning a $735,000 jackpot. Clayton, 25, was convicted of fraud and sentenced to nine months probation. Later that year she was found dead of an apparent drug overdose.

In 1998, security guard Jim Hayes won California's $19 million SuperLotto jackpot, but half of his winnings were taken by his ex-wife. The remainder was quickly drained by a heroin addiction and, by 2018, Hayes was in prison on four counts of bank robbery.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:13 AM   #186
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I was lucky to be born with such a big brain, and so smart the likes never seen before. Believe me!
And I smell better than everyone else too!😁
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:24 AM   #187
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Now, here's a guy who is really lucky, no denying it. Watch the following video in slow motion. The driver walked away!

I don't think I will be so lucky, so I do not participate in anything so dangerous (besides, I do not have the skill).

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Old 09-08-2019, 10:26 AM   #188
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I will always give the benefit of the doubt to the folks on this site in this regard. However, there is a significant and growing segment of society who do use the “you were lucky, you were privileged, you didn’t build that” line to diminish people’s hard work and success. It starts as you state above but often progresses to “support this program, law, or policy because if you don’t then you must hate poor people” or whatever protected class is being discussed. I even saw it once in this thread, in an attempted sarcastic post.
Exactly.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:34 AM   #189
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"Also American, tall, deep voice and male, which the author neglected to mention as contributors to success.
Agree privilege can play a big, although sometimes hard to quantify, part in climbing the corporate ladder.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:45 AM   #190
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Agree privilege can play a big, although sometimes hard to quantify, part in climbing the corporate ladder.
Also, politicians often get to where they are by being in the right place at the right time to scratch an itch of a portion of the populace.

I think people often argue about the outlier cases of outrageous successes. A lot of these guys work hard, but also have luck on their side.

But for the average Joe like me with more humble goals, it does not take as much luck. The top 5% is not as hard to reach as the 0.01%. Even if you do not get to 5%, you can have a comfortable living. We all know plenty of people with not that great IQ nor education nor good upbringing and they are doing fine.

Don't be so ready to blame it on bad luck. Keep trying. Don't do drugs. Don't break laws and get thrown in jail. Don't skip school. Too late for that? Then, don't skip work. You can do it.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:48 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by UnrealizedPotential View Post
Is that along the same lines of I would rather be lucky than good?.
No.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:54 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Senator View Post
I wonder that if they did an IQ study of these people, where it would fall.

Maybe it's the IQ of the people that makes a difference, and not necessarily the hard work.
I belong to Mensa and I can confirm that IQ is not a measure of success. Most of the members were dreamers, more concerned about solving problems that were only of interest to other Mensans.

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I have always been a bit lazy. And that is why I worked so hard, so I would not have to work as long. Maybe it's the lazy people that make it to the 5%?
I think it helps but only if other factors are there. You will look for the easy way before charging into the problem.
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Oh man. Nailed it on the head about the LIST. In my megacorp you were placed on the list right out of college. If you made it into the "professional development program" you were pretty much guaranteed a high level position within 5 years.
Yes I was on the list for a while, then asked my boss to take me off it because I did not care for the attributes they were rewarding.
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
An earlier poster mentioned that CEOs tend to be men of better than average height.
I think that is a correlation not causation. Short people sometimes develop an attitude (narcissism?) that can hinder their progression.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:56 AM   #193
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........... you didn’t build that” .......
This is a political trope taken out of context. Its inclusion doesn't add to the discussion.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:59 AM   #194
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............I think that is a correlation not causation. Short people sometimes develop an attitude (narcissism?) that can hinder their progression.
So glad you explained this. Probably explains racism, sexism and homophobia, as well.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:29 PM   #195
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Thanks for an interesting discussion
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