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Old 03-04-2015, 03:06 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
If it was me, most definitely not. Where I come from trips are discretionary luxuries, firmly in the category of "If you can't pay cash you can't afford it". End of discussion.

Now, others may have a more tolerant view.
I did this with for a friend (a nephew of 2 others on the fishing trip) and all it caused was grief. I put in money and then was accused of not "doing enough". And I wasn't even related. Next trip we all pay "full freight"

Wild Bill shoulda taken more out of his IRA when he could have. . . .
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:51 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Sarah in SC View Post
I run the entire financial life of a friend, as well, but fortunately he's a thrifty sort who definitely wouldn't knowingly bounce checks, just forgets to pay the bills! .............
Wanna trade?

Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
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Old 03-04-2015, 04:02 PM   #43
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He's your bro. You owe it to him to at least give it a shot. Point out all the advantages first and just talk up to him. Be humble. You have have little to lose and lots to gain.

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Old 03-04-2015, 04:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
I have a 45 year old nephew who is going on 15... gave up trying to help him..lost cause.

'You can't push a rope' kinda sums it up...
My nephew is not quite as old. His resume:
High school - check
Creating a baby - check
Drug addict - excellent A+
Stealing from his family - excellent
State Peniteraty - showed initiative and creativity; bought drugs while incarcerated
Making coffee at 12 step programs - check
Staying out of the system - god, I really hope he gets it

Thing I know is; I don't have the power to "fix" him. I can only hope that he finds his power.

He has no skills and a bunch of debt. Legal fees, back child support, won't be easy but it's his only hope.
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A success story
Old 03-04-2015, 04:28 PM   #45
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A success story

Well I have a success story, in fact I was so happy I was going to start a thread but this seems more apropos.

Since being retired, and learning about retirement finances, I have provided lots of in depth guidance to people on forums. By this I mean plug numbers into FireCalc, check quotes on immediateannuities, check funds, do an xray on Morningstar and then write up a several paragraphs. On average these take an hour to do, and I've probably done nearly 1 a month for the last 10-12 years. Beats being moderate as way of giving back. Now less than 1/2 the time do they anything beside lip service. But I guess about 25% of they actually pay attention to the advice and I other give and change behavior. Perhaps 10% do they specifically comeback and thank me.

What has been frustrating to me is my track with real life friends and family has been awful, my best friend is still using Amerprise , two other younger friends are still living paycheck to paycheck. But last week after years of trying I finally got my eldest sister and her recently retired husband to roll their 700K 401K over to Vanguard. I suggested they put the money into Wellesley and Wellington, they added Windsor. They meet with a Vanguard rep (for some reason Vanguard financial adviser really don't like the Ws.) and after some joint discussion, they have good mix of Wellesley, Wellington, Total Stock Market/International and modest amount of index bond funds. And a plan for withdrawing and rebalancing

Now they made plenty of mistake along the way selling out in late 2008 and keeping 1/2 their funds in cash during the recovering. The spent 300K to buy a variable annuity, and now 5 years later my warning about fees is really sinking in. So I guess my point to the OP is don't give up hope, but don't expect miracles or change overnight.
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Old 03-04-2015, 05:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by highlow65 View Post
if you are close to the daughters and can afford it you might want to assist them with college, your brother probably didn't plan for that either, much more important then a trip to Europe
On this I would agree, but would attach strings to even helping the daughters (for them follow, not the brother). His spendthrifty ways may have rubbed off on them, so any help given should come with strict requirements (e.g., good grades, no drugs, no out-of-wedlock kids, etc...) They will be far more likely to stick to such restrictions, since they're not yet earning their own money.
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
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more proactive stance...
Old 03-04-2015, 06:27 PM   #47
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more proactive stance...

I have found that I am in the more aggressive camp now that I am older, more established in my confidence and frankly have much more to offer that is tangible and useful advice, not just intuitive insight. I don't hesitate to provide input or guidance in a peer-level conversation. I give it to them in an organized and logical way. It's pretty hard to argue. They don't have to accept it, buy it, or do anything with it. I feel better doing it and it has definitely worked more than once so I intend on continuing to do it when the opportunity to help arises and I care about the person involved even a little. Just me of course.
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Old 03-05-2015, 04:28 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Al in Ohio View Post
He's your bro. You owe it to him to at least give it a shot. Point out all the advantages first and just talk up to him. Be humble. You have have little to lose and lots to gain.

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Not sure I understand. I can see having a lot to lose and little to gain.

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Old 03-05-2015, 05:59 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by oscar1 View Post
Ok. I want to put a twist on this. There are 3 of us brothers. 2 of us are fairly well off (both of us will ER in our mid 50's). The younger brother is the issue. So, we have this fantastic trip to Europe planned for the summer. Affordable, not too over the top. Younger brother wants to increase his credit line on his credit cards so he and his 2 daughters can make the trip. Do you pony up $1k each to offset his expenses so his kids get the opportunity or do you leave him alone to figure out the finances on his own and possibly miss or mess up the trip for the rest of us?
I have a different take on this than some earlier posters.

My thought is: Why do you think you have the right to run his life?

And why do you feel that him wanting to buy something for his kids somehow imposes an obligation on you to pay for it?
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Old 03-05-2015, 12:24 PM   #50
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My older brother said to me recently he likes fixing cars. They can be fixed. But people can't be fixed.

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financial responsibility

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