How to retire in your 30s

[alphabet soup]

True enough. Being FI is simply a means to an end - it buys one freedom to do what one wants in life. If somebody would pay me for walking the streets or working out for 1-2 hours/day, watching tv for 1-2 hrs/day, playing computer games for 1-2 hrs/day, playing with my kids 2-4 hrs/day, and reading for 2-4 hrs/day, then I'd have no problems working forever.

In the meantime, being FI is an honest goal to have, but not to the neglect of other areas of one's life. As in everything, balance is key.

I recently posted a reply to one of your comments stating I never knew anyone under age 25 who ever had anything of value to say.

I want to publicly say I was wrong. Mea Culpa.
Your above comment proves it.

 

[IHateCNBC]

Learn how to short sell stocks. 

 

[CybrMike]

I recently posted a reply to one of your comments stating I never knew anyone under age 25 who ever had anything of value to say.

ouch.

 

[lazyday]

If you make early retirement your highest priority in life

Reminds me of that line from Citizen Kane, about it being easy to get rich, if that's your only goal in life.

I think happiness is a better "highest priority."

Of course ER may be the best route to happiness for some people, and you're more likely to find those people on a board like this, but IMO that's probably a very small portion of the population. I bet most people would be better off with a highest priority of trying to find more pleasurable work, improving their social or family life, improving lovelife, and/or improving their own personality. Those are difficult, but so is retiring in 30's.

 

[Andre1969]

I think marriage and kids are kind of a wild card when it comes to early retirement, but it's not set in stone that they'll delay it. You can't make broad assumptions about something like that. With regards to marriage, two wage earners should allow you to build a big nest egg that much quicker, IF you're both on the same page. And there's the old saying that two can live as cheaply as one. But, there are no guarantees. But then, is anything in life a guarantee?

As for kids, sure they'll cost money. But having them might encourage you to start saving up for their future and setting money aside for things that could come up, such as college, braces, etc. If you didn't have them, you might not have quite as much incentive to plan ahead and save.

 

[justin]

I recently posted a reply to one of your comments stating I never knew anyone under age 25 who ever had anything of value to say.

I want to publicly say I was wrong. Mea Culpa.
Your above comment proves it.

I just turned 26. That extra year of wisdom probably did it.

My point of view on the "ER in your 30's" deal is this: I'm personally willing to make a few minor sacrifices with limited effects on my Quality of Life in exchange for a very high likelihood of having many decades of life ahead of me to do anything I want.

 

[alphabet soup]

I just turned 26.  That extra year of wisdom probably did it.   

My point of view on the "ER in your 30's" deal is this:  I'm personally willing to make a few minor sacrifices with limited effects on my Quality of Life in exchange for a very high likelihood of having many decades of life ahead of me to do anything I want. 

You're 26!!!
Then I stand by my original statement.

 

[maddythebeagle]

You're 26!!!
Then I stand by my original statement.

whew, just under the gun

 

[Cool Dood]

Damnit, I won't have anything of any value to say for at least another year!

That sounds about right.

 

[bosco]

Exactly. Economies of scale. Kids cost plenty, but there are plenty of tax benefits too. $1700 per head, minimum in most cases. And they help eat leftovers. A 3 bedroom house/condo doesn't cost 3x as much as a 1 BR house/condo. Sure, you might need a little larger car, but you have to have a car anyway. And you won't have time or energy to go on tons of exotic vacations with kids in tow.

Of course on the flip side, if you have a wife who spends 120% of everything you make, you're probably not going to be able to FIRE soon. Maybe that's ok.

it's pretty obvious how many kids you've had to provide for. Forget about the tax benefits. They don't even make a dent.

I'll give you clue--they don't "help eat the leftovers." You'll be lucky if YOU can find a leftover or two to scarf. If you like 'nice' things--forget it. Plan on replacing a lot of broken stuff. There's not much economy of scale in the bicycle you need to buy them....every few years as they grow. They don't wear out clothing, the outgrow or lose it. Unless you plan to isolate them, they will watch tv and have friends and then want everything they saw on tv or saw their friend with. They'll want their own cellphones. They'll want you to drive them here or there (or buy a car for them). And tell us about the "economy of scale" on their car insurance rates.

Of course, when all this happens, you can explain to them how you are planning on retiring early and don't want to spend money on any of that useless stuff. They'll understand.

 

[Nords]

Unless you plan to isolate them, they will watch tv and have friends and then want everything they saw on tv or saw their friend with.  They'll want their own cellphones.  They'll want you to drive them here or there (or buy a car for them).

We've told our kid that she's perfectly welcome to go out and buy all that stuff...

... with her own darn money.

If we had that stuff (or cell phones) and she didn't then it might be a little more difficult to discuss. But we worked hard for what we have, and she's welcome to do the same!

 

[flipstress]

I'll give you  clue--they don't "help eat the leftovers."  You'll be lucky if YOU can find a leftover or two to scarf.  If you like 'nice' things--forget it.  Plan on replacing a lot of broken stuff.  There's not much economy of scale in the bicycle you need to buy them....every few years as they grow.  They don't wear out clothing, the outgrow or lose it.  Unless you plan to isolate them, they will watch tv and have friends and then want everything they saw on tv or saw their friend with.  They'll want their own cellphones.  They'll want you to drive them here or there (or buy a car for them).  And tell us about the "economy of scale" on their car insurance rates.

Of course, when all this happens, you can explain to them how you are planning on retiring early and don't want to spend money on any of that useless stuff.  They'll understand.   

And here I was, starting to get a little wistful about not having children.  Thanks, bosco 

 

[maddythebeagle]

Forget about the tax benefits. They don't even make a dent.

esp. with these darn nuisance child labor laws....

 

[justin]

it's pretty obvious how many kids you've had to provide for. Forget about the tax benefits. They don't even make a dent.

I'll give you clue--they don't "help eat the leftovers." You'll be lucky if YOU can find a leftover or two to scarf. If you like 'nice' things--forget it. Plan on replacing a lot of broken stuff. There's not much economy of scale in the bicycle you need to buy them....every few years as they grow. They don't wear out clothing, the outgrow or lose it. Unless you plan to isolate them, they will watch tv and have friends and then want everything they saw on tv or saw their friend with. They'll want their own cellphones. They'll want you to drive them here or there (or buy a car for them). And tell us about the "economy of scale" on their car insurance rates.

Of course, when all this happens, you can explain to them how you are planning on retiring early and don't want to spend money on any of that useless stuff. They'll understand.

Well, I've got one right now, another one due in 7 weeks, and that might not be the last. Let's just say that you and I seem to have different opinions of how to properly raise a child. I'm more on the "Nords" side of things - if she wants to buy it, that's fine. That's what her allowance is for.

I can understand and respect that different folks have different ways in which they desire to raise their children. I grew up in a very frugal household, and I can't say anything was lacking for me as I grew up. If I wanted to buy something, I did - with my own money. I expect to give the same quality of life to my child. I don't harbor any bitter resentment towards my parents for it today. In fact, I think it made me a better person.

Besides, my kids have uncles and aunts that spoil them with endless quantities of "stuff".

In the future, if my kids actually needed something that I couldn't afford on my 4% SWR (or whatever), then I'd probably figure out a way to take care of it, including working.

Worse case - I'm wrong, kids cost more than I think, and I ER in 12 years instead of 10. A trade I would make without blinking an eye.

It is amazing to me that the bottom 20% of families raise kids on $4000/yr and the top 20% spend $30,000/yr (made up numbers, but the magnitude is correct).

 

[haha]

  it's pretty obvious how many kids you've had to provide for.  Forget about the tax benefits.  They don't even make a dent.

I'll give you  clue--they don't "help eat the leftovers."  You'll be lucky if YOU can find a leftover or two to scarf.  If you like 'nice' things--forget it.  Plan on replacing a lot of broken stuff.  There's not much economy of scale in the bicycle you need to buy them....every few years as they grow.  They don't wear out clothing, the outgrow or lose it.  Unless you plan to isolate them, they will watch tv and have friends and then want everything they saw on tv or saw their friend with.  They'll want their own cellphones.  They'll want you to drive them here or there (or buy a car for them).  And tell us about the "economy of scale" on their car insurance rates.

Of course, when all this happens, you can explain to them how you are planning on retiring early and don't want to spend money on any of that useless stuff.  They'll understand.   

This reflects my experience, both as a child harassing my parents to join a country club, get a better car, buy me a leather jacket, and as a parent, trying to deflect the same from my kids. Don’t forget lessons- music, karate, basketball camp, riding, … It was harder for me to say no to these things, because frankly, almost all of these things are much more easily and well learned by kids than when one is older.

I held it down more than my Dad was able to. But the first thing my sons did when they got jobs was buy so damn much stuff that it helped erase their perceived deprivation.

I do understand Nords, it seems that sometimes military families manage to exert more control over their kids than the usual civilians. But for the average guy living in a middle class community, having kids is like having a tiger by the tail. Esp if they are girls!

Anyway, bring it on, I love the self assurance coming from our younger members. 

Incidentally, one of my sons has 5x my net worth, and he has zero interest in ER. He saw enough of that **** growing up!

Ha

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Anyway, bring it on, I love the self assurance coming from our younger members.
Incidentally, one of my sons has 5x my net worth, and he has zero interest in ER. He saw enough of that **** growing up

Roger that!

My son stumbled into chose law, got his patent bar, and is making about twice what I made as a young nonsurgical physician in adjusted dollars. And he isn't even a partner in his firm yet. As much as I rib him about it, I'm really pleased and proud.

Of course, he shows zero understanding of a FIRE strategy of any sort, but that's another story. If I am blessed with a good retirement and market performance, I'll help him by supporting my grandkids' education some day (same for my daughter's kids). Nice way to kill two birds with one stone.

 

[bosco]

Please don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying you need to, or even should buy your kids whatever they want. I didn't, and I don't believe it is healthy. Having and raising kids is an extremely rewarding endeavour, and one I would recommend to anyone if they are suitably wired.

But, you will find that all the theories you have before, or shortly after they arrive, will be lacking when the actually reality begins to play out. And the notion that "they don't cost that much", is one of the first ideas that you need to plan to reexamine. Being frugal is a good thing, and a good value to teach. But it's an entirely different matter to choose to let a tooth go, or drive a marginal car, or make other decisions based on doing less for yourself. It's another matter to make that decision for another human being that can't do it for themselves.

I am not saying that ER is incompatible with having kids. I AM saying that ER should not be the driving force, and having kids a side-project.

And if you believe that you will always have control over the little beasts psychologcially, think again. It's a two-way street. Kids will raise you as much as you raise them. That's a good thing. Plan to have your values change.