Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 09:51 AM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,625
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
I agree - I haven't figured out my annual return.
I wonder if others have included working and other income in their annual returns?
I used MSMoney and I believe it is essentially correct because in the accounts/funds where neither additions nor withdrawals occured, the returns match what is showing up on generally accurate web sites like Vanguard.

As we saw from a previous thread on this same subject, I think it would be pretty tough to do these calculations without software if you had more than a couple of new buys and couple of sells.

And no, I did not do the Beardstown Ladies thing of counting new contributions as part of the ROI.

I think ben's post is dead on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben
Without having looked at peoples portfolios in detail I think the overall better performance here compared to the US large cap market is clearly that almost ALL of us diversify more - and that paid of this year.

Just buying VTI(tot US) up about 8% ytd would have given us an advantage of about 1.5% this year as compared to the SP500. EFA(for. developed) is up 12% YTD and VWO(EM) up 32% so a simple portfolio like: 50% VTI, 25% EFA and 25% VWO would have done 15% YTD.

Naturally the fixed income portion wil then reduce the 15% YTD return some depending on % split.

Many of us in addition hold small caps/commodities/reits Etc. that has done well too.

Cheers!
__________________

__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 10:28 AM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,875
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
I agree - I haven't figured out my annual return.
I wonder if others have included working and other income in their annual returns?
I left out spousal income and income on borrowed CC money,
which BTW........... combined would far exceed the old Terhorstian
"$50 per day" which I keep bringing up as step down from
where we live, and a step up from "Possum living". This gets into the
old "How much is enough? or How low can you go?" debates.

JG
__________________

__________________
MRGALT2U is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 11:12 AM   #43
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Okanagan Valley
Posts: 805
Re: How's your YTD

10.7% overall including Bonds and Debentures (but not including cash and T-bills) in Canadian based currency.* Including cash would drag down overall returns considerably due to current large cash position of about ~35% of total portfolio.

Group of Canadian energy, financial and REIT investments: ~50% gain
Group of US stocks: ~6% gain
Group of Canadian Energy Debentures: ~15%
Largest group (mutual funds*): ~8%

* Mutual funds consist of Canadian, US and International allocations and form ~75% of the portfolio.

I have found that one must check Quicken to ensure it makes the proper calculations.* The percentages are often off a bit for reasons that I have yet to determine.

For my purposes, ROI is equal to:* (Ending Balance - Starting Balance + Investment returns)/Starting Balance.* I have not sold any investments during 2005 (haven't sold an investment since late 2002).* I include investments made during the year provided they are in both starting and ending balances.

Edit: 11.7% YTD if I include re-invested dividends and dividends paid to bank account that I missed in earlier calculation.
__________________
AltaRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 11:13 AM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,321
Re: How's your YTD

Based on my own spreadsheets our various retirment accounts (tax deferred) have done 9.7% YTD. This was easy to figure since we are no longer making contributions. With the new house purchase and furnishings this year there have been so many transactions in our taxable accounts I don't really feel like calculating the YTD return. The dividend yield on our individual stocks has been 3.75%.

Grumpy
__________________
...you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...
grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 11:50 AM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
Posts: 1,647
Re: How's your YTD

As you all know I am completely in Fixed income at the moment and I am up just under 5% all told, tax deferred and taxed included.

SWR
__________________
"Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just remember that the pig likes it."
ShokWaveRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 12:17 PM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
Re: How's your YTD

Here's how I figured out my rate of return for the past year...

On some of my older accounts, such as my old Boeing 401k and my Fidelity 401k, which have had nothing new invested over the past year (I haven't worked for Boeing since 12/31/99, and I switched companies again in April of 2003, which is when I stopped investing in the Fidelity account), I just took their current value and divided by what their values were a year ago.

For other accounts that I'm still investing in, I took their current value, and divided by the sum of the value from a year ago and what was invested in them over this past year. So, for example, if I have an account that is now worth $40,000, was worth $30,000 last year, and I invested another $5,000 over the course of 2005, then I'd put down a 14.3% rate of return... $40K / ($30K + $5K) = 1.142857....
__________________
Andre1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 02:36 PM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 420
Re: How's your YTD

For me it was easy. I am FIREd and already had taken some cash aside for first year spending so I have not had any (major) buy/sell transactions. So I just used the Morningstar return nos. Cheers!
__________________
preben is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:02 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,625
Re: How's your YTD

Let's show how YTD calculations are troublesome.

Suppose I have on 12/31/2004 $30,000 I invest an additional $5000 on Jan 4, 2005 and now I have $40,000. Since the $5K was there almost the whole year, it's like a $35K at the start, $40K at the end, so for all practial purposes the YTD is 14.3%

But suppose I invest the $5K on 12/22/2005. In essence, the $5K wasn't in the account long enough to make a difference. It's like I have $30K invested the whole year that increased in value by $5K to $35K, then I added $5K. So my return is very close to 16.7% (35K/30K).

In essence, one needs to carefully consider the amount of time each bit of money was invested. And that's what MSMoney, PFROI, and Quicken are supposed to be good at.
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:05 PM   #49
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead*
Cutthroat:
By the way, regarding your return, I did the best I could for you by selling you some of my Reits a little over a year and a half ago.
Are you still holding?

Regards, Jarhead, formerly Ex-Jarhead, and formerly Jarhead. I'm coming back as Jughead if I lose it again.
Well, my records indicate that the REIT index fund was up about 10% this year. But what was strange is that Vanguard says the Fund was up 26%-27%. I can't even imagine why there would be such a huge discrepancy?

Anyone have a clue why this is?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:11 PM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,625
Re: How's your YTD

Did you eat your dividends or re-invest them?
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:18 PM   #51
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
Did you eat your dividends or re-invest them?
All re-invested!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:21 PM   #52
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Thinking out loud here...

Vanguard will be telling you the return from 11/30/04 to 11/30/05.* Are you calculating from 1/1/05 to 12/24/05?*

Are you comparing Personal Rate of Return with the return for the fund?

I see the REIT Index Fund Admiral shares reported as a 17.46% 1 year return as of 11/30/05.

Depending on when you bought, you could see changes in value such as 12.1, 18.2, or 24.2%. If you bought on 3/30 and sold on 7/30, your annual rate of return would be 68.1%!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg REITChart.jpg (38.4 KB, 101 views)
Attached Files
File Type: jpg_thumb REITChart.jpg_thumb (10.4 KB, 0 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:30 PM   #53
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Where are you getting the 26.5% figure?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:32 PM   #54
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Where are you getting the 26.5% figure?
First of all I never sold my REIT holdings. I am getting my 10% figure from Quicken. And that is from 1/1/2005 thru today. The 26% figure came from vanguards website.

I just didn't think the numbers could be that far off.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg REIT.JPG (19.3 KB, 96 views)
Attached Files
File Type: jpg_thumb REIT.JPG_thumb (4.1 KB, 0 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:45 PM   #55
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

That figure is for 9/30/04 to 9/30/05.*

But it shouldn't be that far off, and I think the problem is Quicken.* Have you entered all transactions and historical prices for that fund in Quicken?* That may be the problem, or Quicken may just be screwy.*

For example, I have a 500 Index fund for which I sold all shares in April.* Quicken shows the YTD IRR for that fund as -15%.* I think it's because I didn't enter all transactions along the way, and Quicken is looking at the year 2000 high for that fund as the price on Jan 1, 2005.* I haven't really figured out what's happening, but I know that I didn't lose 15% in a few months on that fund.

So, thanks to Quicken, I'm not really sure of my YTD return.*

However, now I use transaction downloading, and all transactions are represented properly.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:46 PM   #56
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Looking over some reports, I have determined that Quicken is the culprit! - I really am getting about 25% on the REIT fund. One Quicken report I ran told me that I had an ending market value of TWICE of what I really had in the REIT fund and told me that I gained over 100%!! -This is when I customized an investment performance report for just the REIT index fund.

Another Quicken report said 10%.

I lose more faith in Quicken every day!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 03:52 PM   #57
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How's your YTD

Well, look at their three year growth of 10,000 graph, and you'll see that it goes from 17,889 on 12/30/04 to 20,037 on 11/30/05.* That's an annual rate of 13.1%, so that's pretty close to what you have.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg REITChart2.jpg (34.6 KB, 88 views)
Attached Files
File Type: jpg_thumb REITChart2.jpg_thumb (10.7 KB, 0 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 04:08 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,119
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I lose more faith in Quicken every day!
I gave up on Quicken years ago (DW says I have "incredible" patience ). As I said in another thread, "...my attitude towards their [Intuit's] entire product line is that you should open the lid on the toilet and throw them intuit."

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 04:21 PM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: How's your YTD

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
Let's show how YTD calculations are troublesome.

Suppose I have on 12/31/2004 $30,000 I invest an additional $5000 on Jan 4, 2005 and now I have $40,000. Since the $5K was there almost the whole year, it's like a $35K at the start, $40K at the end, so for all practial purposes the YTD is 14.3%

But suppose I invest the $5K on 12/22/2005. In essence, the $5K wasn't in the account long enough to make a difference. It's like I have $30K invested the whole year that increased in value by $5K to $35K, then I added $5K. So my return is very close to 16.7% (35K/30K).

In essence, one needs to carefully consider the amount of time each bit of money was invested. And that's what MSMoney, PFROI, and Quicken are supposed to be good at.
You can try this link: http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/retur...returnrate.jsp
Return on investment

Annualized Return: 16.45%
Return for the entire period: 16.45%

Starting date: 12/24/2004
Starting value: $30000

Ending date: 12/24/2005
Ending value: $40000

Additional deposits and withdrawals:

Addition: Date 11/24/2005 Amount $5,000.00

Or you can do the same in Excel (starting in Column A):
Values Date
-30000 12/24/2004
0 1/1/2005
0 2/1/2005
0 3/1/2005
0 4/1/2005
0 5/1/2005
0 6/1/2005
0 7/1/2005
0 8/1/2005
0 9/1/2005
0 10/1/2005
-5000 11/24/2005
40000 12/24/2005
Using this formula: =XIRR(A2:A14,B2:B14,0.1) = 0.164566571


__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How's your YTD
Old 12-24-2005, 04:24 PM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: How's your YTD

12/24 YTD: 6.8%

I calculate this by comparing by total assets - total spent vs. total assets last year.

My allocation is:

Stocks: 57%
Cash/CDs/Bonds: 43%
__________________

__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
YTD 2006 investment Sam FIRE and Money 84 12-04-2006 01:39 PM
My best performing funds YTD... Gonzo FIRE and Money 32 06-25-2006 11:07 AM
YTD Dude FIRE and Money 49 05-29-2006 08:11 PM
Yield and YTD return smooch FIRE and Money 3 12-13-2005 07:10 AM
Cramer's YTD Return windsurf FIRE and Money 69 12-02-2005 06:11 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.