Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 01:27 PM   #1
Full time employment: Posting here.
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 829
I decided to do my own investing

I have approximately 60% with Investors Group, been with them for approximately 9.5 years and have earned an average of about 2% per year. I think it's safe to say that I decided to take the whole amount out, but I'm not surprised that they are resisting, and the fees to remove the funds are ridiculous.
Another 27% with TD Waterhouse in Mutual funds, another 10% in stocks and 3% in cash.

I'm not sure right now what I'm going to do, but I need to try and educate myself, for now I need to find a way that I can eliminate a couple of thousand in fees to remove those funds with IG. But I think I have no choice but to bite the bullet and pay up. This sucks that investment companies earn more off of you're money then we do.

This is all new to me.

I'll keep you posted.
__________________

__________________
Newbie
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 01:30 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Dream
This sucks that investment companies earn more off of you're money then we do.
Caviat Emptor - NOUN: The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.
__________________

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 01:38 PM   #3
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: I decided to do my own investing

I just bailed out of an annuity and had to pay a 5% penalty for getting out early. The investment choices in the annuity were very limited and had a 2.2% expense ratio.

Moved it to my IRA account where the expense ration was about .3%. On $100K, the difference in expenses alone made the early bail out a break even deal after about 3 years even if performance is identical.

Not sure what kind of investments you are in that require that much to get out, but do the arithmetic. At 2% return for 9 years, sounds like you'll make up your back load fees within a few years.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 01:41 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,378
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Hey Rich,

I'll bet you feel better though. You did the right thing.
__________________
Work is something you do to get enough $ so you don't have to....Me.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 02:45 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 829
Re: I decided to do my own investing

This is a response I got from IG,"This fund series has atttached with it a fund schedule of redemption fees that started at 3.5% and then went down each year at the rate of 05.% so that by 6 years you would have no redemption fees. The new schedule that we adopted a few years ago, has a different rate system."

In other words, if you invest $100,000.00 with them, they take 3.5% off so you only have 96,500 principal to invest. Every year they give you back .5%. They are making money off of you're money. That's just one of the fees.
__________________
Newbie
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 03:18 PM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Dream
This is a response I got from IG,"This fund series has atttached with it a fund schedule of redemption fees that started at 3.5% and then went down each year at the rate of 05.% so that by 6 years you would have no redemption fees. The new schedule that we adopted a few years ago, has a different rate system."

In other words, if you invest $100,000.00 with them, they take 3.5% off so you only have 96,500 principal to invest. Every year they give you back .5%. They are making money off of you're money. That's just one of the fees.
Well, live and learn. That's why many here use Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, Fidelity, etc.

It's really just an arithmetic problem. If their performance gap or expense ratio are greater than .5% a year worse than wherever you choose to move the money to, then I'd move it and you'll break even in a short time, winning thereafter.

Consider it cheap tuition for your budding financial education .
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 03:43 PM   #7
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 60
Re: I decided to do my own investing

I feel your pain. I've got an account with an investment group that has to be moved. Additionally my wife and I have seperate 401k plans and retirement cash balances that we will take and are trying to formulate plans on how to make that happen and what to do with them. I'll start another thread seeking advise on how to do this.

I'm sorta in the same boat with you here, guess we have to pay for our previous mistakes. But hey, life is a learning experience.
__________________
garrynky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 04:30 PM   #8
Recycles dryer sheets
poboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 362
Re: I decided to do my own investing

https://flagship.vanguard.com/VGApp/...mepageOverview

Did 401k rollover to vanguard. No load. I am sure others have different fund companies they might suggest but you might explore this site as a start. Go to site, click research funds at top, I do this by asset class .
__________________
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
poboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 04:38 PM   #9
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
Re: I decided to do my own investing

I think I'd threaten to expose them with their big 2% return if they tried to charge me enormous fees to get out. How ridiculous.
__________________
virginia is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 04:52 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Hmmm (1966 - 2006) to celebrate my 'incredibly brilliant 40 yrs' of doing my own investing I consolidated even more of holdings into Target Retirement 2015 in 2006 (from Lifestrategy, REIT Index, Small Cap Value).

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh - still have 15% in my never say die, hope springs eternal, it only takes one - one day I 'WILL' beat those boring low cost balanced index funds - possibly before age 99.

Psst - not Wellesley but 0.21% expense ratio according to VG.- - .25% for the Prime MM being the most expensive.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 05:41 PM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 829
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Rich_in_Tampa

That's why many here use Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, Fidelity, etc.

In Canada, we don't have those institutions.

poboy

I am sure others have different fund companies they might suggest but you might explore this site as a start.

Thanks for the link, but in Canada, I don't believe that will help.

virginia

I think I'd threaten to expose them with their big 2% return if they tried to charge me enormous fees to get out.

They are one of the largest investment companies in Canada, they simply don't care, they're only interest at this point is not losing me as a customer.

unclemick2

Hmmm (1966 - 2006) to celebrate my 'incredibly brilliant 40 yrs' of doing my own investing I consolidated even more of holdings into Target Retirement 2015 in 2006 (from Lifestrategy, REIT Index, Small Cap Value).

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh - still have 15% in my never say die, hope springs eternal, it only takes one - one day I 'WILL' beat those boring low cost balanced index funds - possibly before age 99.

Psst - not Wellesley but 0.21% expense ratio according to VG.- - .25% for the Prime MM being the most expensive.


unclemick2 congrats, unfortunatly for me.........that went way over my head.

__________________
Newbie
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 05:59 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,619
Re: I decided to do my own investing

http://www.bylo.org/ is for Canadians.

Are you able to use ETFs bought through your TDWaterhouse brokerage account? If so, then I think this is a good ETF site:

http://www.radicalguides.com/2005/06...dical_gui.html


(I'm pretty sure these sites have appeared here on the ER forum previously.)

Good luck!
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 06:05 PM   #13
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Okanagan Valley
Posts: 805
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Dream
This is a response I got from IG,"This fund series has atttached with it a fund schedule of redemption fees that started at 3.5% and then went down each year at the rate of 05.% so that by 6 years you would have no redemption fees. The new schedule that we adopted a few years ago, has a different rate system."

In other words, if you invest $100,000.00 with them, they take 3.5% off so you only have 96,500 principal to invest. Every year they give you back .5%. They are making money off of you're money. That's just one of the fees.
That is not quite true. What you got yourself into was back end loaded mutual funds (DSC funds) that have a declining redemption schedule. They take nothing from you when you invest. Only when you decide to cash in your investments and the fee depends on where you are in the redemption schedule. It would be 3.5% in the first year, but 0% by the 7th year should you have held your investments that long.

Most brokers in Canada inappropriately put their clients into these funds by default without first asking the client. And often because the client does not want to pay a front-end load and doesn't know to ask for no-load or low-load funds. IG has done nothing no other full service broker (shark) would not do. Caveat emptor - buyer beware. All investment companies (other than discount brokers) have similar schedules when you cash in the funds.

Why have you not checked with your 'new' discount broker about doing a straight across transfer of your IG assets? Unless you have specialized products that are only sold by IG advisors, all mutual funds are transferable in kind. Simply ask your new broker to initiate a transfer. You will still be obligated to pay the redemption schedule should you wish to cash these assets in for something better at some point in time, but at least the option and choice of timing will be your own.

I recommend you read up on the following thread at Financial Webring Forum http://financialwebring.com/forum/vi...c.php?t=101652 and in particular the Investing and Implementation sections to get some perspective on DIY investing. Your posts appear to contain whining and not much in the form of 'roll up your sleeves' effort to educate yourself on options available to cut your costs dramatically and put your investing decisions in your own hands.

Example: You can buy and sell FE mutual funds at E*Trade Canada at zero cost provided you do not sell within 90 days.

Edited for grammar...
__________________
AltaRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 06:29 PM   #14
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
Why have you not checked with your 'new' discount broker about doing a straight across transfer of your IG assets?
... Your posts so far appear to contain a lot of whining and not much in the form of 'roll up your sleeves' effort to educate yourself on options available to cut your costs dramatically and put your investing decisions in your own hands.
I know we have some other apparently successful, non-whiney, non-defeatist Canadian friends like AltaRed here on the board -- maybe they can chime in to verify or dispel the implication that there are no low-cost investment opportunities available to Canadians. I find that hard to believe but don't know enough about it to say much more.

My Dream, the idea is not to shoot down as unsuitable every suggestion people offer you, but to use them as examples of the types of things you might explore within the financial world that's available to you. I guess I'm just not resonating with the tone of this thread.

Good luck to you.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 07:09 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,198
Re: I decided to do my own investing

What, Canadians can't put money in Vanguard??
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-03-2006, 07:50 PM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Okanagan Valley
Posts: 805
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
What, Canadians can't put money in Vanguard??
They can, but only via ETFs. Resident Canadians are not permitted to buy US domiciled mutual funds per US law. And so while Canadian domiciled mutual funds and ETFs are expensive relative to their US counterparts, a resident Canadian can buy anything that is traded on a US stock exchange. I, for example, own SPY ETF units at, I believe, 0.10%

And while I am at it, I apologize to My Dream for my "whining" comment. It was a reaction to my partial reading of a thread My Dream started elsewhere on his work/life issues and was uncalled for in this thread. I was reacting to the poster's comments about IG ripping him off.
__________________
AltaRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-04-2006, 08:22 AM   #17
Full time employment: Posting here.
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 829
Re: I decided to do my own investing

LOL!

Are you able to use ETFs bought through your TDWaterhouse brokerage account

Thanks for the link LOL!, I'm going to read it when I have a chance, but first I need to get educated on these terms, such as ETFs. It'll take some time, but I'll get it. And thanks, luck is what I need right now, along with educating myself.

AltaRed

Why have you not checked with your 'new' discount broker about doing a straight across transfer of your IG assets?

Very good advice Alta, and I have, this is a direct quote from TD "$45 per fund charge is a TD charge, as redeeming Investors Group funds is a manual process for TD." This would amount to around $1,600.00, as it stands now, I've stated that I don't want to pay that and await there response.

I recommend you read up on the following thread at Financial Webring Forum http://financialwebring.com/forum/vi...c.php?t=101652

Thanks for the link.

Your posts appear to contain whining and not much in the form of 'roll up your sleeves' effort to educate yourself

I've heard that from a few members, and by the sounds of it, if I don't shape up I may have overstayed my welcome. I need to pull up my socks and get out of this depression I'm going through. No excuses, I need to let go of the past and look forward, but it's really dam hard.

I was reacting to the poster's comments about IG ripping him off.

I went through the 22 posts trying to find my statement saying "IG was ripping me off" but couldn't find it. Maybe that was the impression I gave you, either way what ever I say was obviously my opinion. As I truly believe we're all entitled to, although I don't think that really matters anymore, I got you're point.


Rich_in_Tampa

My Dream, the idea is not to shoot down as unsuitable every suggestion people offer you, but to use them as examples of the types of things you might explore within the financial world that's available to you.

That wasn't my intent, and for that I apologize.


In conclusion, you've all given me very valuable info, which I will read, and it the mean time, I'm going to be moving our funds from IG since they're fees are just too high. Meanwhile, in reading between the lines, I'm going to get my chit together and take some time away from this forum to reflect.


The information available in this forum is endless. Thanks so much everyone.

__________________
Newbie
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-04-2006, 11:53 AM   #18
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 25
Re: I decided to do my own investing

VWELX, VGTSX & VFINX opinions please.
__________________
nellieb is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-04-2006, 12:48 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: I decided to do my own investing

MyDream.. don't run off just because someone was impolitic; I don't think any one person speaks for "the forum". There's nothing to read between the lines except what you took away from one or two posts out of many others. Hey, people here can be know-it-alls.. cantankerous.. holding ourselves to be some of the best and brightest because "we get it".

AltaRed apologized, and I think you can take some of his advice exchanging the words "why did you not?.." for "why don't you...?" (I know nothing about Canadian investment so I can't comment on particulars.) It's not easy for someone who has devoted themselves to their business to turn financial whiz overnight; many people here now devote themselves to nothing else, so take it with a grain of salt.

It must be very hard (especially for a man, especially for "the breadwinner") to be questioning "what the heck am I doing?" You are looking at a huge shift in providing for your family via the sweat of your brow, versus providing for them through investments, and I can understand how that might be scary. You're not alone in finding that you have investments with overlooked strings attached that you have to disentangle.

You're also not alone in that UncleMick's posts go over your head! (But I enjoy them to the extent that he obviously enjoys them so fully himself..! Go U.M.!)

MyDream.. your posts really touched me. I, too, had a service business (not as stressful as yours - not so much liability) where I walked away with my portion of the accounts receivable and little else (my choice). I know you must worry about your kids, but try to eliminate the "wedding" aspect.. the wedding is about the two people involved and not how much $$ you throw at it. I think there's generally a reverse correlation between wedding cost and length of marriage, and there are any number of resources to help you and your kids pull off an event that is meaningful without breaking the bank.

I really like the idea of branching out into residential kitchens that some other posters proposed, if you choose to keep working in some way.. No one's going to dock you $1,000,000 for one thing, which should cut way down on your stress! I wish you were in Italy; I'd look into hiring you to re-do my kitchen.. (whaddaya think of a wood-burning pizza oven, a Lacanche stove..? some issues with re-building the chimney zone, of course.. there's an open fireplace now that doesn't draw... : )

You say you need luck. Most people here would probably say "you make your own luck." I think, along with others, you need to find a way to take a breather and recoup some energy. None of your questions seem silly (and I have seen silly questions posted here). You ARE on the right track! Take a deep breath and keep learning. You are "lucky" in that your wife is basically on board. Many people struggle or have struggled with a spouse who doesn't get it in any way, shape, or form; your conversation with her sounds a thousand times better than other similar "little chats" documented here.. she says openly that your unhappiness makes her unhappy.. so.. cut loose! (Her 'not touching the principal' argument could be re-visited, depending on what you both want to leave for your kids.. a pile of money or a dad who has crashed and burnt. Use the FireCalc and see if there isn't a "third way": 1/2 for you guys, 1/2 for them.. seems fair to me. )

I wish you all the best, and I hope you will keep us posted on how you are doing!

__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: I decided to do my own investing
Old 10-04-2006, 01:00 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: I decided to do my own investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
They can, but only via ETFs. Resident Canadians are not permitted to buy US domiciled mutual funds per US law. And so while Canadian domiciled mutual funds and ETFs are expensive relative to their US counterparts, a resident Canadian can buy anything that is traded on a US stock exchange. I, for example, own SPY ETF units at, I believe, 0.10%

And while I am at it, I apologize to My Dream for my "whining" comment. It was a reaction to my partial reading of a thread My Dream started elsewhere on his work/life issues and was uncalled for in this thread. I was reacting to the poster's comments about IG ripping him off.
That sucks, but at least you can get the ETF's...................

SO there are options.......... As far as Canadien brokers putting people in B shares, don't they have to disclose that? In the US, they do...........
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Value Investing Arif FIRE and Money 6 04-26-2016 07:01 PM
Aging Brings Wisdom, but Not on Investing dex FIRE and Money 0 12-04-2005 12:16 PM
(DVY) and Dividend Investing charlottebandito FIRE and Money 11 08-01-2005 10:35 PM
Book Report - Four Pillars of Investing cute fuzzy bunny FIRE and Money 24 03-25-2004 12:24 PM
International Exposure in Investing arrete FIRE and Money 21 04-03-2003 10:54 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:28 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.