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Old 06-18-2015, 08:53 AM   #61
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This is almost like reading what earthlings think life on a distant planet must be like

Sorry...gotta run...my limo is here to take me to the tanning salon and then champagne brunch....
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Old 06-18-2015, 08:59 AM   #62
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The Chicago snow means the Ferrari keeps getting stuck due to the low clearance, so not a good choice.
That's why if you can afford a Ferrari, you have a "winter" car (or two)...maybe a Land Rover.
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:11 AM   #63
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I had a 3yo BMW convertible that I bought from the dealer with dealer warranty and 39 month lease. When I retired, I sold it after a year because it was not getting used much.

Four years later when we had acquired our second home, we bought a 3yo high mileage Escape (50k miles), and now, 5 years later, it has another 4000 miles added. Granted we only use it 5 months. Turning high mileage vehicles into low mileage...
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:16 AM   #64
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If in SoCal, what would you need firewood for? Most fireplaces in SoCal are just there for display. Besides, not everyone is interested in camping, hunting or having kids or pets. Mind, I don't own a sportscar nor would I care to buy one but different strokes for different folks.

I've got a co-worker who's stingy as hell in most things but drives a couple of nice muscle cars. Uses a dumbphone on prepaid and never goes on vacation but frequently does upgrades and tinkers with his cars.
Different strokes for sure. Several posters have espoused the view that socal is heaven. Not for me. I hope the people who live there do enjoy it so that they stay there forever.
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:24 AM   #65
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In the meantime, they are making their FI happen in less desirable areas of the world. One in San Francisco and the other in New Zealand.
New Zealand undesirable?! I would definitely take NZ over California (and just about every other state in the Union)! Perhaps I missed the sarcasm...



Sent from my mobile device so please excuse grammatical errors.
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:33 AM   #66
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New Zealand undesirable?! I would definitely take NZ over California (and just about every other state in the Union)! Perhaps I missed the sarcasm...
SF and NZ! Yes that was sarcasm!
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:43 AM   #67
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Different strokes for sure. Several posters have espoused the view that socal is heaven. Not for me. I hope the people who live there do enjoy it so that they stay there forever.
I know a ton of ppl that have moved here from socal and none of the inverse.


they do all drive nice cars though, at first, then they get scoobs
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:51 AM   #68
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About 25 years ago, I remember reading a story about a guy from some ritzy area of California that was having a 1959 DeSoto Firedome convertible restored. One of his friends told him that for what he was paying for the restoration, he could've bought a Ferrari. His response was "yeah, but everybody around here drives a Ferrari. People will notice me in this!"
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:04 AM   #69
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After too many years of driving beaters, held together with coat hangers and duct tape, with a gallon of no-name oil and/or transmission fluid in the trunk for frequent refills, I'm happy with a car that goes "vrooom" when I ask it to. Well, that, a stereo, and a/c.
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:10 AM   #70
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... By the way, in many wealthy areas like Paradise Valley, the cars of choice seem to be Bentleys. BMW's/Mercedes/Audis are very common. Sporty exotics like Ferraris are rare, maybe because the demographic skews pretty old, and us old guys have trouble getting in and out of them.
If I were that rich, I would not want to drive. And a chauffeur will also keep the car dust free when he is not driving me to places.

My son, a young engineer, bought an Audi S4 because he drove his cousin's (a young pharmacist) and loved it. He kept it nice and clean for the first few months, but it is now left dirty. Told my wife earlier that he should get it out of his system, so he can grow out of it.

About owning a nice car, I prefer to use the money for vacations or to maintain my 2nd home. Or just to keep that money so it shows up in Quicken for counting pleasure. If I had more money, I might change my mind, but at this point, I pay no attention to luxury cars on the road, nor am curious about what they cost. It came as a surprise to me how much a lower German luxury sedan costs, and how much they go up to. Also, how fast they depreciate!
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:43 AM   #71
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I am FAR from San Diego or any other high cost of living area, yet I see the same 4 Jaguars at the drop off and pick-up at the elementary school. Who in my area is driving a Jaguar? A couple of them seem to be driven by grandparents and two of the Jaguars are older body styles.

I also see a lot of current model Lexus SUVs decked out with all the trim extras. I assume many of these are leased. After my sister got a new Subaru Forester ($32,000) I noticed how many of those in my area, too.

Then there is the Testarossa that we see occasionally.

It seems odd in our very middle class neighborhood. Maybe these folks can afford these things because of the low cost of living here. Or maybe they are like so may others who just lease because they want bigger and better right now.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:46 AM   #72
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In my experience people who drive flashy and expensive cars are:
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:47 AM   #73
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When I last shopped for a car almost 10 years ago, I was reading Edmunds and other cat sites, for info about German cars.

Ended up getting a Honda and spending less than half of what I would have spent.

I'd read somewhere how much each $10k not spent on more costly car would return in 10, we or more years.

As it turned out, I'd have been all right spending more money then. OTOH, still have the Honda and it only has about 30k miles and not putting too many miles on it even After RE.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:53 AM   #74
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I've actually seen lease advertisements for Jaguar and other brands that make them seem surprisingly affordable. I haven't read the fine print, but I seem to remember some lease on a Jag that was around $459/mo.

I'm sure there are all sorts of mileage restrictions, and perhaps a big up-front payment, but it seems like a pretty cheap way to look rich, if that's something you care about. For comparison, I remember the payment on my old 2000 Intrepid, purchased November 1999, was $347.66/mo. Adjusting for inflation and that's about $496 in 2015 dollars.

So, if you want to convolute the logic a bit, you could argue that a new Jag can be cheaper than a 15 year old Intrepid!
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:26 PM   #75
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In my experience people who drive flashy and expensive cars are:
Hahah, love that cartoon. But I can't agree 100% with the sentiment, since I actually drive a pretty flashy German sports car and yet I'm not one of those "no cattle" types. I bought the car used several years ago and got a good deal on it, so I honestly don't feel like it was such a frivolous extravagance (well, maybe 20% frivolous or extravagant). Considering that my net worth is over 100x what I paid for the car, I think the pleasure I get driving it on warm spring days with the top down can be reasonably justified as "worth it" to me. I tend to keep cars for over 10 years, so shelling out once every decade for something snazzy and stylish and fun to drive seems like an OK use for a small percentage of my money.
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:38 PM   #76
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Years ago was doing pretty well and started looking at new BMWs. One ostentatious, blustering relative mentioned to family how impressed he was with me, and that I must be doing very well with my business. He was never impressed before. The thought of impressing this type of person completely turned me off to the BMW. I bought a VW Jetta instead. Needless to say, he was not impressed with this. It was my first car with air conditioning though, I really loved that! Air conditioning, if you have never had it before, can really make one feel wealthy.
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:40 PM   #77
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But getting back to the personal economics of California. It's obvious that those luxury cars are leased.
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Or maybe they are like so may others who just lease because they want bigger and better right now.
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I've actually seen lease advertisements for Jaguar and other brands that make them seem surprisingly affordable. I haven't read the fine print, but I seem to remember some lease on a Jag that was around $459/mo.
Leasing doesn't mean it's cheap. The $459/mo are come-ons. From personal experience, you need to almost double that payment to reach reality in the luxury realm.

Yes, you can lease a Toyota as advertised for $149/mo but once you get up into the higher end models of the Mercedes, Lexus, Bentley world, their advertised "$600 a month" is more like $1100 by the time you put pen to paper.
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Old 06-18-2015, 01:02 PM   #78
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I just found one of the Jag leases. It was for a 2015 Jaguar XF 2.0T Premium, MSRP from $50,175. "The Jaguar XF 2.0T Premium fuses contemporary sports car styling with the refined performance and comfort of a luxury sedan".

LEASE FOR $449.00/MONTH
FOR 36 MONTHS*
$4,355 CASH DUE AT SIGNING.

And the associated fine print:
"2015 Jaguar XF 2.0T Premium, 36 month lease, $4,355 due at signing includes $3,111 down, $0 security deposit, $795 acquisition fee and first month's payment, excludes retailer fees, taxes, title and registration fees. Actual rates and payments of closed-end lease may vary. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 6/30/15. Lessee responsible for insurance, maintenance, excess wear and excess mileage over 30,000 miles at $0.30/mile. Based on MSRP of $51,170 (includes destination and delivery) with a residual value of $30,190 as of 5/1/15. For well qualified lessees as determined by approved lender. All amounts shown are estimates, retailer sets actual amounts. Residency restrictions apply. Lessee has option to purchase vehicle at lease end at price negotiated with retailer and approved lender at signing. Termination fee may apply."

However, you get into the nicer trim levels, and an XF's base MSRP can go from $51K to $84K. And I'm sure even there, there are some stand-alone options.

My guess is the base Jaguar XF is essentially a modern day Ford Granada. It might look expensive and ritzy at first. But once you experience a little seat time in it you'd wish you had gotten a real luxury car, rather than a Maverick trying to pass off as one!

Oh, and yeah, the $84,000 Jaguar was about $1199 per month.
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Old 06-18-2015, 02:15 PM   #79
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I just found one of the Jag leases. It was for a 2015 Jaguar XF 2.0T Premium, MSRP from $50,175. "The Jaguar XF 2.0T Premium fuses contemporary sports car styling with the refined performance and comfort of a luxury sedan".

LEASE FOR $449.00/MONTH
FOR 36 MONTHS*
$4,355 CASH DUE AT SIGNING.

And the associated fine print:
"2015 Jaguar XF 2.0T Premium, 36 month lease, $4,355 due at signing includes $3,111 down, $0 security deposit, $795 acquisition fee and first month's payment, excludes retailer fees, taxes, title and registration fees. Actual rates and payments of closed-end lease may vary. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 6/30/15. Lessee responsible for insurance, maintenance, excess wear and excess mileage over 30,000 miles at $0.30/mile. Based on MSRP of $51,170 (includes destination and delivery) with a residual value of $30,190 as of 5/1/15. For well qualified lessees as determined by approved lender. All amounts shown are estimates, retailer sets actual amounts. Residency restrictions apply. Lessee has option to purchase vehicle at lease end at price negotiated with retailer and approved lender at signing. Termination fee may apply."

However, you get into the nicer trim levels, and an XF's base MSRP can go from $51K to $84K. And I'm sure even there, there are some stand-alone options.

My guess is the base Jaguar XF is essentially a modern day Ford Granada. It might look expensive and ritzy at first. But once you experience a little seat time in it you'd wish you had gotten a real luxury car, rather than a Maverick trying to pass off as one!

Oh, and yeah, the $84,000 Jaguar was about $1199 per month.
Anybody that leases a car like this needs to roll the $4355 in the lease payment. If you pay it, and the car gets totaled when leaving the lot, you just lost $4355.
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Old 06-18-2015, 02:23 PM   #80
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rented a bmw 528i xdrive in Denver a few weeks ago; nice ride


Dunno if it's worth $50-60K tho. I like my turbo forester better.
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