I just bought VFINX today

AirJordan · 03-05-2007, 03:58 PM

And then I sold it, because I realized I am in fact smarter than the indexers

YTD -1.1%, take that haystackers

VGTSX, VFINX both down over 2.5%

Cut-Throat · 03-05-2007, 04:20 PM

Hey AirJordan is that Hot Air ?

JohnEyles · 03-05-2007, 04:38 PM

PLEASE don't feed the trolls !

newyorklady · 03-05-2007, 04:42 PM

he actually has a point about the index funds.

bpp · 03-05-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

I just bought VFINX today
And then I sold it

Brilliant.

. . . Yrs to Go · 03-05-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady

he actually has a point about the index funds.

What, that he's smarter than an index fund?

bpp · 03-05-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go

What, that he's smarter than an index fund?

No man, don't you get it? His strategy of day-trading the indices has only lost half as much as a buy-and-holder would have over the past two months. Can't argue with a record like that.

shanjwa5 · 03-05-2007, 05:06 PM

Actually I have VFINX as a 401k option. Got out at $118 and watched it blow past $120. Anyone have a buy target on this fund?

wildcat · 03-05-2007, 05:25 PM

C-T -

How about that pic you posted that one time - "How about a nice glass of STFU?" Now is as good of a time as ever.

Let me help you with that!

HFWR · 03-05-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirJordan

And then I sold it, because I realized I am in fact smart than the indexers

YTD -1.1%, take that haystackers

VGTSX, VFINX both down over 2.5%

Avocado...

wildcat · 03-05-2007, 05:43 PM

Texas Proud · 03-05-2007, 06:12 PM

Saw this today.... bold added by me... but they got AJ!!!

PAUL B. FARRELL
You're saving 'too much' for retirement!

As a result, Main Street is now in a no-win situation. Jack Bogle's famous "Iron Law of the Markets" puts this assets-based monster in context with his new "Little Book of Common Sense Investing:" "Trying to beat the stock market is theoretically a zero-sum game (for every winner, there must be a loser), but after the substantial costs of investing are deducted, it becomes a loser's game."
Bogle has had a consistent solution to the "Iron Law" dilemma for three decades: "The simplest and most efficient investment strategy is to buy and hold all of the nation's publicly held businesses at very low cost. The classic index fund that owns this market portfolio is the only investment that guarantees you with your fair share of stock market returns." We've put this strategy into action with our lazy indexed portfolios. See how the lazy portfolios have beaten the market.
Unfortunately, Wall Street understands the "Iron Law" better than Bogle! Wall Street knows it cannot charge big management fees off low-cost index funds. So Wall Street is relentlessly hypnotizing investors into believing that actively managed funds beat the indexes even though about 80% fail to do so, largely because their average expense ratios are 10 to 15 times the fees charged by index funds.

newyorklady · 03-05-2007, 06:15 PM

then why do people buy managed funds? this makes no sense to me at all.

Cut-Throat · 03-05-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady

then why do people buy managed funds? this makes no sense to me at all.

They are smart! - Like AJ!

newyorklady · 03-05-2007, 06:37 PM

really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

wildcat · 03-05-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

The problem with good money managers (and those available to the public) is that they are saddled with huge inflows of capital from people seeking higher returns - i.e. chasing "hot" money - and it usually forces the mm to A) buy overpriced stocks and B) reduces the number of potential investments - a huge fund can only make sizable stakes in huge companies. Skill is not always the Achilles' heel.

Cut-Throat · 03-05-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady

really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

I suggest you read "The four Pillars of Investing" by William Berstein. All of your answers will be in there.

Spanky · 03-05-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Unfortunately, Wall Street understands the "Iron Law" better than Bogle! Wall Street knows it cannot charge big management fees off low-cost index funds. So Wall Street is relentlessly hypnotizing investors into believing that actively managed funds beat the indexes even though about 80% fail to do so, largely because their average expense ratios are 10 to 15 times the fees charged by index funds.

There will always be people who think they can be the other 20%.

Spanky · 03-05-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady

really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

The market is very efficient; that is, as soon as info becomes available, everyone can act on it immediately. Thus, it is very, very difficult to exploit the information unless you have access to it before everyone else. There will always be managers who can beat the market, but can the same managers beat it on a consistent basis (or year after year)? The answer is simply no. It will be some other manager's turn next. Once they do, money will follow them.

lswswein · 03-05-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady

really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

NYL
You might want to read the Four Pillars by Bernstien or Bogle's books. The short story is:

Efficient Market Hypothesis
This is a large part of the theoretical argument for passive management and against persistence of mutual fund returns. The developed world's equity and bond markets are quite efficient. This means that there are many intelligent rational people trying to maximize their wealth and that relevant information about securities travels extremely quickly. In other words, everybody else already knows everything you think you know about a particular security and they have already taken advantage of that information (and eliminated any opportunity that may have briefly existed to take advantage of that information) before you (and I) get a chance to.

Also check the reference papers at the link below:
http://altruistfa.com/readingroomart...fficientMarket

-h

03-05-2007, 03:58 PM	#1
AirJordan Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 79	I just bought VFINX today And then I sold it, because I realized I am in fact smarter than the indexers YTD -1.1%, take that haystackers VGTSX, VFINX both down over 2.5%

03-05-2007, 04:20 PM	#2
Cut-Throat Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 364	Re: I just bought VFINX today Hey AirJordan is that Hot Air ?

03-05-2007, 04:38 PM	#3
JohnEyles Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 608	Re: I just bought VFINX today PLEASE don't feed the trolls !

03-05-2007, 04:42 PM	#4
newyorklady Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 199	Re: I just bought VFINX today he actually has a point about the index funds.

03-05-2007, 05:06 PM	#8
shanjwa5 Confused about dryer sheets Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8	Re: I just bought VFINX today Actually I have VFINX as a 401k option. Got out at $118 and watched it blow past $120. Anyone have a buy target on this fund?

03-05-2007, 05:25 PM	#9
wildcat Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,870	Re: I just bought VFINX today C-T - How about that pic you posted that one time - "How about a nice glass of STFU?" Now is as good of a time as ever. Let me help you with that! __________________ "These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"

03-05-2007, 05:43 PM	#11
wildcat Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,870	Re: I just bought VFINX today __________________ "These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"

03-05-2007, 06:12 PM	#12
Texas Proud Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,994	Re: I just bought VFINX today Saw this today.... bold added by me... but they got AJ!!! PAUL B. FARRELL You're saving 'too much' for retirement! As a result, Main Street is now in a no-win situation. Jack Bogle's famous "Iron Law of the Markets" puts this assets-based monster in context with his new "Little Book of Common Sense Investing:" "Trying to beat the stock market is theoretically a zero-sum game (for every winner, there must be a loser), but after the substantial costs of investing are deducted, it becomes a loser's game." Bogle has had a consistent solution to the "Iron Law" dilemma for three decades: "The simplest and most efficient investment strategy is to buy and hold all of the nation's publicly held businesses at very low cost. The classic index fund that owns this market portfolio is the only investment that guarantees you with your fair share of stock market returns." We've put this strategy into action with our lazy indexed portfolios. See how the lazy portfolios have beaten the market. Unfortunately, Wall Street understands the "Iron Law" better than Bogle! Wall Street knows it cannot charge big management fees off low-cost index funds. So Wall Street is relentlessly hypnotizing investors into believing that actively managed funds beat the indexes even though about 80% fail to do so, largely because their average expense ratios are 10 to 15 times the fees charged by index funds.

03-05-2007, 06:15 PM	#13
newyorklady Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 199	Re: I just bought VFINX today then why do people buy managed funds? this makes no sense to me at all.

03-05-2007, 06:37 PM	#15
newyorklady Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 199	Re: I just bought VFINX today really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

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