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Old 11-13-2015, 06:15 AM   #121
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I've heard some stories about people getting hourly wage increases, but then actually asking for their hours to be CUT, so that they can still get the government subsidies. I don't know how true it is, as you can find pretty much anything online these days to either back up or refute an argument...
Before I FIRE'd, I opened an office in a Texas border town. I wanted to pay premium wages because I wanted to attract the best talent in that market. Had tons of applications, but once hired several of the new employees did exactly that - they requested that I lower their pay because they hadn't realized how much assistance they were going to lose.
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Old 11-13-2015, 08:47 AM   #122
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Before I FIRE'd, I opened an office in a Texas border town. I wanted to pay premium wages because I wanted to attract the best talent in that market. Had tons of applications, but once hired several of the new employees did exactly that - they requested that I lower their pay because they hadn't realized how much assistance they were going to lose.
It's pretty bad when even so called "premium wages" still don't cover the bills. This is that much-referred-to American economic mechanism of people figuring their budget at the kitchen table. They're not trying to steal anything. They're just trying to pay the bills. Now, if they come out better working 36 hours a week and taking advantage of a subsidy than working 40 hours a week for "premium wages", why the hell would anyone who understands work, money, and productive activity, like say... a businessman... or even another kitchen table figurin' American, see this as a negative?

If the wages were all that premium they would scoff at the subsidy and avoid all the evil gubmint freedom steeling paperwork
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Old 11-13-2015, 08:54 AM   #123
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... they requested that I lower their pay because they hadn't realized how much assistance they were going to lose.
Come to think of it, they are not doing anything different than us who shuffle money around to lower our tax, or to get ACA subsidy, or retire early because working more years get no more SS benefits, or file-and-suspend (when it was still allowed), or to claim SS spousal benefits, etc... And these people have a more legitimate reason to do so because their pay is low, not high as our pay who can afford to ER.

People are free to optimize their situation under a given system, as long as they are not doing anything against the law.
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:03 AM   #124
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Come to think of it, they are not doing anything different than us who shuffle money around to lower our tax, or to get ACA subsidy, or retire early because working more years get no more SS benefits, or file-and-suspend (when it was still allowed), or to claim SS spousal benefits, etc... And these people have a more legitimate reason to do so because their pay is low, not high as our pay who can afford to ER.

People are free to optimize their situation under a given system, as long as they are not doing anything against the law.
Honestly, if I was in the same situation, I might be tempted to do the same thing. If raising my pay makes me lose other benefits, and the net effect ends up being a wash, then I'm not really getting ahead. But, if I cut my hours, keep the other benefits, at least I have more free time, even if I'm not any better off financially.
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Old 11-13-2015, 10:14 AM   #125
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]It's pretty bad when even so called "premium wages" still don't cover the bills. ....
They really were "premium wages" for the area, at or slightly above that market's high end for the type of work and skill required and what some would probably call a living wage. I suppose I could rack up enough bills that no amount of wages would cover them but that's probably another topic.


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...why the hell would anyone who understands work, money, and productive activity, like say... a businessman... or even another kitchen table figurin' American, see this as a negative?
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Come to think of it, they are not doing anything different than us who shuffle money around to lower our tax, or to get ACA subsidy, or retire early because working more years get no more SS benefits, or file-and-suspend (when it was still allowed), or to claim SS spousal benefits, etc... And these people have a more legitimate reason to do so because their pay is low, not high as our pay who can afford to ER.....
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Honestly, if I was in the same situation, I might be tempted to do the same thing....
I wasn't offering an opinion (negative or positive) of the situation, just evidence in support of another poster's comment that they had heard of such requests.

The challenge for me as an employer was that I couldn't simply reduce their wages because they had asked me to, especially after having performed a market wage survey and knowing what the local range was for the type of work involved.

Instead, the best I could do was offer them a transition to part time which preserved the pay rate but would give them the flexibility of reducing their hours.

Some took it, some didn't. I would assume those who didn't eventually figured the math worked in their favor. But in either case I didn't and still don't draw any judgments.
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:01 AM   #126
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My parents were directly affected as teens/young adults. But I also have a brother 14 years older...the Depression and WW 2 deprivation stories were vivid and detailed in our house, and scary to a young child. And my bedtime prayers included, "and please don't let the bombs drop, amen." So yeah, some of us are closer to this stuff than you imagine..[
Seems that bombs dropping and the great depression are two separate and somewhat conflicting fears, but hey, it's all good, right?
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Old 11-13-2015, 03:18 PM   #127
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Math was waaay off. Remind me not to post when I am on vacation. Unfortunately still working here at 34yrs old... and apparently math doesn't come with me when i go on vacaion and am posting from the hotel lol.

I swear I wasn’t drinking. Anywho, the pt was the conveniences of everything in life will cost. Sometimes those conveniences are worth it though.
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Old 11-13-2015, 06:51 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by razztazz View Post
It's pretty bad when even so called "premium wages" still don't cover the bills. This is that much-referred-to American economic mechanism of people figuring their budget at the kitchen table. They're not trying to steal anything. They're just trying to pay the bills. Now, if they come out better working 36 hours a week and taking advantage of a subsidy than working 40 hours a week for "premium wages", why the hell would anyone who understands work, money, and productive activity, like say... a businessman... or even another kitchen table figurin' American, see this as a negative?

If the wages were all that premium they would scoff at the subsidy and avoid all the evil gubmint freedom steeling paperwork
Maybe the problem is that the benefits are too generous or they are living beyond their means.

When DW worked for WIC, she observed that many of her clients had better cable tv packages, telephone services, etc than we chose to have even though we could afford it.
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:46 PM   #129
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:43 AM   #130
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I wasn't offering an opinion (negative or positive) of the situation, just evidence in support of another poster's comment that they had heard of such requests...

...I didn't and still don't draw any judgments.
Your post simply reported a fact that you observed in real life. And if anyone makes any judgment, it's OK too. We all do all the time.

I just came to a realization that I also look for ways to optimize my finance according to the law, and often need to remember that. Of all the faults that I have, one thing I hate most is to find myself a hypocrite.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:31 AM   #131
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