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Old 02-08-2008, 11:15 AM   #61
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Apology accepted, but there's a reason it's the "less accepted" definition.
I'm not sure where Wikipedia got that information. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is edited and maintained by regular joes, and their fact-checking isn't always flawless.
It does say where it got it from... " the National Bureau of Economic Research.[1] That private organization defines a recession more ambiguously as 'a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months.'"
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:13 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Of course, all of this is rendered moot when a year or two from now, after the recession is over, someone goes back and revises the figures to show that we WERE in a recession after all, but thank god we got through it without anyone realizing it until it was over...
It seems to work that way every time. Every time a recession roles around its like the end of the world.

God Bless
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:32 PM   #63
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A bar owner pointed out to me yesterday (or the day before?) that now a days so many middle class families spend that extra money on soccer, basketball or whatever for their kids, plus the gas to get them half way across town for the games, that money has to come from somewhere, and it's from the money families spend to go out.

As a result the bar business is going downhill, as it's being supported by the rich or by the poor. The middle class no longer has the time or money to go to the bar.

So I will take my $600 and spend it at the bar if you will too.
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:59 PM   #64
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In case this hasn't been mentioned....

...Remember, this is your money you're getting back, and the rebate checks are basically an advance on your 2009 refund. The last time such rebates were sent out was in 2001, said tax expert Mark Luscombe, "a lot of people were upset to see their (next) refund reduced."...

The details on tax rebates - MSN Money
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:21 PM   #65
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It seems to work that way every time. Every time a recession roles around its like the end of the world.
Ayuh...everyone in office tells us its all good, nothing to worry about, we're not in a recession, but we're worried about it so go spend!

Then its "whoops...I guess we WERE in a recession! Good thing its over now!"

GOD BLESS US ALL!!!!
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:02 PM   #66
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I just read the Liz Pulliam Weston article cited above and I'm 'fused'.
She quotes someone as saying that it is really your 2009 rebate given to you early, and thus isn't 'free money'.

But the same article also says it is a one-time tax credit for 2008 given to you now (instead of in 2009 when you file your 2008 taxes).

But a one-time tax credit is 'free money'... it isn't something you were going to get in a rebate, since it wasn't a tax credit before. So it isn't 'reducing your rebate' as the article claims -- without this new law you wouldn't be due this money.

Of course this is all sidestepping the real issue that it's just more govt debt being heaped on our kids generation to pay off some day, but that is a bone for another thread.

Does anyone have the clear info on this rebate? Is it just an advance on something we were going to get anyway or is it really something new?
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:15 PM   #67
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I just read the Liz Pulliam Weston article cited above and I'm 'fused'.
She quotes someone as saying that it is really your 2009 rebate given to you early, and thus isn't 'free money'.

But the same article also says it is a one-time tax credit for 2008 given to you now (instead of in 2009 when you file your 2008 taxes).

But a one-time tax credit is 'free money'... it isn't something you were going to get in a rebate, since it wasn't a tax credit before. So it isn't 'reducing your rebate' as the article claims -- without this new law you wouldn't be due this money.

Of course this is all sidestepping the real issue that it's just more govt debt being heaped on our kids generation to pay off some day, but that is a bone for another thread.

Does anyone have the clear info on this rebate? Is it just an advance on something we were going to get anyway or is it really something new?
Just when I thought I underestood how this "rebate" would work, there appears to be another kink. What if you aren't due a tax refund in 2009? Will you then end up owing $600 more?
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:33 PM   #68
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I just read the Liz Pulliam Weston article cited above and I'm 'fused'.
She quotes someone as saying that it is really your 2009 rebate given to you early, and thus isn't 'free money'.

But the same article also says it is a one-time tax credit for 2008 given to you now (instead of in 2009 when you file your 2008 taxes).

But a one-time tax credit is 'free money'... it isn't something you were going to get in a rebate, since it wasn't a tax credit before. So it isn't 'reducing your rebate' as the article claims -- without this new law you wouldn't be due this money.

Of course this is all sidestepping the real issue that it's just more govt debt being heaped on our kids generation to pay off some day, but that is a bone for another thread.

Does anyone have the clear info on this rebate? Is it just an advance on something we were going to get anyway or is it really something new?
As far as the basic 600/1200 rebate check, its a tax cut resulting from raising the 0% tax bracket threshold on a one-time basis. You can earn 6k or 12k more income before you go from 0% bracket to 10% bracket. Not 'free money'. Since the withholding rates remain unchanged, we would be over-withheld without the 'prebate'. If they changed the witholding tables the funds would dribble into the economy over several pay periods which would not produce the same 'rush' for the economy and it would cost employers to tweek everyone's paychecks. It seems to me it could be a real pain if your income increases drastically over the 75k/150k thresholds for full prebate. You might have to give some back when '08 taxes are filed.

All the folks that think it's good to get a huge refund just don't get it, never will. Most folks I know don't have a clue how much they actually pay, they only know if they're writing a check or getting a refund!
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:34 AM   #69
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Ah airfare for the summer trip, the 1200 dineros. Yippie confetti drop....
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:52 AM   #70
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Nothing is going to keep the USA out of a recession now. The real question is how this recession is going to end, IMO. Obviously $600 is not going to prevent the recession, too little money too late, and is not going to end it either.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:43 PM   #71
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It seems to work that way every time. Every time a recession roles around its like the end of the world.

God Bless
This just in (well, OK a couple days ago):
The recession watch can now end. It's already here. - Feb. 5, 2008
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:38 PM   #72
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Good I plan to celebrate today with a bottle of merlot.
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:41 PM   #73
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Just when I thought I underestood how this "rebate" would work, there appears to be another kink. What if you aren't due a tax refund in 2009? Will you then end up owing $600 more?
The Liz Pulliam article says,

Quote:
If that's your situation, or you somehow wind up with a check when you technically shouldn't have -- you earned income in 2007 but won't in 2008, for example -- you won't have to pay back the money, said Luscombe, a principal analyst for tax research firm CCH.
So, I gather that even though you wouldn't be due a tax refund in 2009, you still won't owe $600 more.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:38 AM   #74
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USK Coastie & Independent..

The employment figures seem even more subject to fudging than CPI or GDP. Without some kind of expensive and exhaustive census, it's hard to track who has quit looking for work, who's moved from full- to part-time, retired, self-employed, surviving on odd jobs, etc. It also can't measure job quality and security; everyone's pretty much agreed that the jobs "lost" in mfg. and infrastructure are higher-quality than the jobs "created" in fast food and big-box stores.

One good reason to question the numbers is, if real wages are falling.. doesn't that imply more competition for jobs, hence less-than-"full" unemployment? At "full" employment.. it should be the corporations begging for workers, not vice versa.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:09 AM   #75
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This "stimulus package" will stimulate China's economy more than our own. I happen to agree with the OP that IF government is going to hand out $150B it doesn't have to 'stimulate' the domestic economy, public works projects and infrastructure investments are a much better way to spend it. We'd have a safer, stronger infrastructure and keep a lot more people employed. And the money stays here rather than half of it going to China.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:41 AM   #76
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This "stimulus package" will stimulate China's economy more than our own. I happen to agree with the OP that IF government is going to hand out $150B it doesn't have to 'stimulate' the domestic economy, public works projects and infrastructure investments are a much better way to spend it. We'd have a safer, stronger infrastructure and keep a lot more people employed. And the money stays here rather than half of it going to China.
Prove to me that 50% of the money being given to Americans is going to go to China, stats please...............
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #77
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I'd be surprised if the number was that low...
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:25 AM   #78
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Prove to me that 50% of the money being given to Americans is going to go to China, stats please...............

Did you know 50% of all stats are made up on the spot.
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:34 PM   #79
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Did you know 50% of all stats are made up on the spot.
I thought I was the only one that did that.

I would bet that most of the rebate money will go to Plasma or LCD TVs. Soon TV signals will be going digital, so people will take the opportunity to upgrade. Can't really buy much else with 600 to 1200 bucks.
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:02 PM   #80
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I think its closer to 93.2%.

Since everything I've bought in the last 2 weeks had "made in china" stamped on it, and even a bunch of my food was sent to china for processing and then returned here...I'd be pretty unsurprised if our gimme money doesnt turn into either a happy time for the chinese economy through purchases of their products, or investments when they buy treasuries that are floated to pay for the additional bit of deficit spending to fund the rebates...
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