Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-21-2009, 11:35 AM   #61
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
I agree with your interpretation and it is very depressing reading. I intend to RE at 55 next year with all the basic essentials of my RE budget covered by my pension. If the company plan goes down the toilet in the next few years I will lose a LOT of income over the coming years.

But, c'est la vie, I'm certainly not going to change my plans unless it actually happens.
If you retire at 55 in good health, and your wife is similar age and health, the odds are fairly good that one of you will live to 95 or even longer. That makes the value of a non-COLA pension a lot less that you might expect. Therefore, losing part of the pension is not as significant as you might expect; especially if you have a large DC plan or other investments. Plus you will probably have most of Social Security.

In my own case, I lost 78% of my non-COLA pension but FIRECALC indicates my loss to be about 20% of my annual income throughout a 40 year retirement. We notice the difference, but still have enough to really enjoy retitrement.
__________________

__________________
Gearhead Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-21-2009, 02:16 PM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,259
I will put in my 1cent (because 2cents is too much)....

Running Man... underfunding pension plans has been normal for almost all companies... and I would be upset if I lost my pension that SHOULD have been funded...

But one of the biggest costs (from what I hear on the TV etc.) is the health costs for the retirees... 100% paid health care... and I doubt this was funded at all (or very little)... and this is a benefit that the cost increases has far exceeded inflation...

I was with a company that offered group rate insurance to people who were 55 and retired.... but the CEO that was acquired in a purchase decided that the costs were to much and took them away... they did leave them in place for anybody who was 50 YO... so me being just shy of 49 at the time 'lost' my planned health insurance... am I upset... yea, a bit... do I worry about it... nope... it is the way things happen...

So, to sum up... I would be upset if I lost my pension that is supposed to be funded, but not as upset for losing the health care which was an extra that could be taken away at any time...
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 02:18 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
I seem to recall some discussions, somewhere, that suggested that tax rules prohibited 'over-funding' of pensions. IOW, if the pension fund was X% more than actuarily sound, companies were penalized for adding to it.

Anyone know if this is accurate?
I have not heard of that. However, pension funds were notoriously over-funded in the late 70's and early 80's.......
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 05:45 PM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat
I seem to recall some discussions, somewhere, that suggested that tax rules prohibited 'over-funding' of pensions. IOW, if the pension fund was X% more than actuarily sound, companies were penalized for adding to it.

Anyone know if this is accurate?
What actually happened was that due to bizzarre accounting rules, pension funds that were "overfunded" could extract money from the plan as profit. Yet the presumed rate of return on the assets was set by the company. So take your pension plan, assume sky high rates of return. and all of a sudden your pension plan was now a profit center for the company regardless of the actual money available to fund pensioners.

Now all of a sudden we find that pension plans are underfunded, and companies will have to pay extra. And they are all crying - Poor me and asking for government leeway now. This is a little AIG story all in itself.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 06:25 PM   #65
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 310
MasterBlaster, if that's you pictured in your avatar, I don't think I would dare underfund your pension. You might hit me. Or fall down.
__________________
shoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 06:40 PM   #66
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoe View Post
MasterBlaster, if that's you pictured in your avatar, I don't think I would dare underfund your pension. You might hit me. Or fall down.
yeah, Thats me..... now.

I used to be a 98 pound weakling until I discovered the Charles Atlas system. I used to hate getting sand kicked in my face.


__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 06:49 PM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Rip tennis balls asunder...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 05:12 AM   #68
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
yeah, Thats me..... now.

I used to be a 98 pound weakling until I discovered the Charles Atlas system. I used to hate getting sand kicked in my face.

Well that clears things up then!
__________________
shoe is offline   Reply With Quote
My dealership update
Old 04-24-2009, 09:51 AM   #69
Full time employment: Posting here.
cardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 599
My dealership update

This doesn't pertain to GM retirees, but I've been following the GM bankruptcy watch closely since I close my dealership's doors back in April. I was really sweating whether GM would pay off my floorplan lender the $450K I still owed on the inventory that was left over if they went into bankruptcy. They paid it off a couple of days ago, and I'm still trying to get over the hangover from the party we had after we heard the news.

The really interesting thing is that they actually OVERPAID by about 14K, which really helps since they are being jerks about paying for my parts in left in stock that I legally am supposed to be able to return. My parts are worth about 10K, so now I get to owe THEM money, which I will very slowly pay them like they have been doing to me the last few months. Sweet justice.

The not so good news is Chrysler still owes me 18K for the parts return and various other things they quit paying for months ago, so I'm really not sure if I'll get that money if they go into bankruptcy. I wonder if I need to make another claim for that money when they hit BK? Probably. Joy.

Anyway, that's what's happening on the front lines of the wacky bizaro world of car dealerships today!
__________________
cardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 10:00 AM   #70
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 223
Here I go sidetracking a thread,

Cardude, do dealerships pay for their car inventory when they recieve the cars, or does auto manufacture carry the cost until the car is sold? Who is responsible for carrying the debt?
__________________
DAYDREAMER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 10:36 AM   #71
Full time employment: Posting here.
cardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 599
Quote:
Here I go sidetracking a thread,

Cardude, do dealerships pay for their car inventory when they recieve the cars, or does auto manufacture carry the cost until the car is sold? Who is responsible for carrying the debt?
LOL. You didn't hijack it-- I did.

Dealerships pay for the inventory when it hits the lot (actually about a week before it arrives), so we pay to carry the inventory. All the manufacturer is supposed to do is build a car that will sell, stand behind it, and then leave us alone, but of course they are too smart to do that so instead they get involved in every detail of our business and as a result build crappy cars they have to over incentivize to actually sell.

The existing dealerships are going to have an interesting time IMO trying to get out of this business with GM in BK. Will GM take the inventory back and pay off the floorplan lenders when they are in BK? The dealer contract can be reworked or tossed out, and that's where all the protection is for the dealers concerning termination benefits like buying back inventory and parts and such.

I'm really, really glad I got out when I did, and I almost waited too long.
This is a big train wreck waiting to happen for small towns when all these dealers start to go under en mass, or forced out under the BK process. Very sad.
__________________
cardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 10:46 AM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
So CarDude- GM took back your cars, and paid you what you had originally paid for them? If you note was more or less than this figure, how was that adjusted?

Thanks-

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:06 AM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude View Post
LOL. You didn't hijack it-- I did.

Dealerships pay for the inventory when it hits the lot (actually about a week before it arrives), so we pay to carry the inventory. All the manufacturer is supposed to do is build a car that will sell, stand behind it, and then leave us alone, but of course they are too smart to do that so instead they get involved in every detail of our business and as a result build crappy cars they have to over incentivize to actually sell.
Tell us how you REALLY feel.........

Quote:
The existing dealerships are going to have an interesting time IMO trying to get out of this business with GM in BK. Will GM take the inventory back and pay off the floorplan lenders when they are in BK? The dealer contract can be reworked or tossed out, and that's where all the protection is for the dealers concerning termination benefits like buying back inventory and parts and such.
Some Olds dealers got out ok, but that was when GM HAD some money to work with..........

Quote:
I'm really, really glad I got out when I did, and I almost waited too long.
This is a big train wreck waiting to happen for small towns when all these dealers start to go under en mass, or forced out under the BK process. Very sad.
The main thing that will happen is rural folks are going to have to drive 30-50 miles to buy a new GM car, instead of the little dealer down the street.
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:09 AM   #74
Full time employment: Posting here.
cardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 599
Quote:
So CarDude- GM took back your cars, and paid you what you had originally paid for them? If you note was more or less than this figure, how was that adjusted?

Thanks-

Ha
We have a strange way of paying for inventory. When we get a car shipped to us from the factory, our floorplan lender pays the factory the full invoice for the car and then puts that amount on my floorplan. However, quarterly the factory pays the dealer a "holdback" amount (3.5% of invoice basically) which was designed to help with cash flow for the dealers I think-- that was before my time when that stuff was decided. The full invoice price that was floored included the holdback amount, however, so basically we have been paid by the factory for the holdback, and plus we have the holdback financed. Pretty stupid actually-- we dealers are financing more than the invoice of the car, but that's how everyone does it.

So you can see that when the factory pays off a dealer's floorplan account, they should only pay off the invoice LESS the holdback amount which has already been paid to us. GM however, in is infinite fiscal wisdom, paid off my entire floorplan amount. Now, when they realize their mistake, they will have to try to get it from me. They owe me for parts and tools in an amount about equal to what the holdback is, so now I have some leverage over these bozos. If they did it the right way I would be left hoping to get my parts and tools and other money they owe me, and since they will probably be in BK that's not a good deal for me.

Chrysler, for instance, did it the right way (for them). They paid off my floorplan lender (Wells Fargo) the invoice less the holdback amount, and now they owe me the 18K in parts and tools and I have to debt to them to offset that amount. Will they pay? I'm not spending that money yet. LOL.

Clear as mud?
__________________
cardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:15 AM   #75
Full time employment: Posting here.
cardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 599
Quote:
The main thing that will happen is rural folks are going to have to drive 30-50 miles to buy a new GM car, instead of the little dealer down the street.
I was talking about the loss of employment and tax revenues the dealerships generate. For many small towns, the auto dealers are one of the biggest employers, and they spend thousands a month on local advertising and community support.
__________________
cardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:49 AM   #76
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
The main thing that will happen is rural folks are going to have to drive 30-50 miles to buy a new GM car, instead of the little dealer down the street.
I don't see how this can be limited to only that. These dealers are large local employers, important in civic and charitable events, and many of them advertise widely and actually bring in $$ from other cities and towns. If the town I lived in had lost its Ford dealer it would have been hard pressed to make that up.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:50 AM   #77
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 145
" These dealers are large local employers, important in civic and charitable events, and many of them advertise widely and actually bring in $$ from other cities and towns. If the town I lived in had lost its Ford dealer it would have been hard pressed to make that up."

You must have an entirely different breed of car dealer where you live. With rare exceptions, the ones around here are generally lying bloodsuckers.
__________________
randyman65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:52 AM   #78
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyman65 View Post
" These dealers are large local employers, important in civic and charitable events, and many of them advertise widely and actually bring in $$ from other cities and towns. If the town I lived in had lost its Ford dealer it would have been hard pressed to make that up."

You must have an entirely different breed of car dealer where you live. With rare exceptions, the ones around here are generally lying bloodsuckers.
Now there is a nuanced opinion.
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:52 AM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude View Post
I was talking about the loss of employment and tax revenues the dealerships generate. For many small towns, the auto dealers are one of the biggest employers, and they spend thousands a month on local advertising and community support.
I was referring in a simplistic way how it would affect a consumer. Up here in farmville, a lot of local rural dealers are also the implement and tractor dealers, so at least they are diversified somewhat. There's a Pontiac dealer about 20 miles NW of me and they are almost done.......
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 11:54 AM   #80
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyman65 View Post
You must have an entirely different breed of car dealer where you live. With rare exceptions, the ones around here are generally lying bloodsuckers.
Funny, I think the folks at Best Buy and Thomasville Furniture are lying bloodsuckers, I guess I need to get out more.
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What if the Big Three go into chapter 11 ? frayne Other topics 2 11-18-2008 07:21 PM
(Beyond) Ready for Another Chapter... Midpack Hi, I am... 3 01-21-2008 10:23 PM
Interesting choices for last career chapter Rich_by_the_Bay FIRE and Money 30 08-14-2007 10:48 PM
Builder Filed Chapter 7 frayne Other topics 4 12-12-2006 02:59 PM
Chapter 11 and impact on pension frayne Other topics 5 09-21-2005 07:00 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:32 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.