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If you have a Mortgage, Pay or lose the place. Period.
Old 03-05-2008, 08:50 AM   #1
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If you have a Mortgage, Pay or lose the place. Period.

Man I am tired of hearing about the sub prime mess, bernekie saying cut the principal on peoples upside down loans etc.

Nope, You took out a mortgage you pay the bill. Tired of hearing I was mislead on the numbers when I took out the note. BULL, you all knew what you were getting into, but you were greedy. Yes greedy you loved 3.5% and interest only and you were stupid to think your 2000 sq foot 50 year old house would sell for 1 million dollars even though you paid 400K which was well overpriced in the first place. But you drank the Kool Aid and now your mortgage is 8.5% and your pyment has doubled or tripled. Uh go out and make more money and pay your bills. Only a loser walks away from a debt. Only a weak person finds excuses for inability to pay debt. look if you are sick and cannot work, well you should have a disability policy that you should have purchased when you started working , that would cover your arse if and when you could not work. you have a greater chance of being disabled than dying early!
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:04 AM   #2
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Was surprized to read ONLY 9 million are upside down .... seems very low to me.

The system should easily absorb 9 million foreclosures.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:09 AM   #3
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I know this is difficult to believe, but there are alot of stupid people out there. If this was a 3rd world country, they would have starved to death. Currently, we are like ancient Rome - doing whatever we can to keep the poor (of mind and economically) from revolting.
It is only downhill from here. We don't have the political will to change it. I think I'll be OK until I die in about 35 years. After that the Vandels will be at the gates.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:13 AM   #4
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I know this is difficult to believe, but there are alot of stupid people out there. If this was a 3rd world country, they would have starved to death. Currently, we are like ancient Rome - doing whatever we can to keep the poor (of mind and economically) from revolting.
Bread and circuses, baby. Bread and circuses.

Seriously, though, I think you're on to something here. I believe Tocqueville said something to the effect of: "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

That about covers it, I think. He was right on the money some 175 years ago.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:16 AM   #5
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14 million - upsidedown - in another article .... I just don't understand how we evolved into the "no personal responsibility, let government take care of everything" society.

FWIW, I was upside down on 3 mortgages in the early 90's. Sucked to be me ... but I never missed a payment and 12 years later everything was right-side-up (again). It's what you learn from hardship that makes you a better person/investor. (Been hitting homeruns with every property I purchased since).
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:18 AM   #6
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Man I am tired of hearing about the sub prime mess, bernekie saying cut the principal on peoples upside down loans etc.

Nope, You took out a mortgage you pay the bill. Tired of hearing I was mislead on the numbers when I took out the note. BULL, you all knew what you were getting into, but you were greedy. Yes greedy you loved 3.5% and interest only and you were stupid to think your 2000 sq foot 50 year old house would sell for 1 million dollars even though you paid 400K which was well overpriced in the first place. But you drank the Kool Aid and now your mortgage is 8.5% and your pyment has doubled or tripled. Uh go out and make more money and pay your bills. Only a loser walks away from a debt. Only a weak person finds excuses for inability to pay debt. look if you are sick and cannot work, well you should have a disability policy that you should have purchased when you started working , that would cover your arse if and when you could not work. you have a greater chance of being disabled than dying early!
I agree with everything you say. I might add that a large percentage of our population is in denial as to the seriousness of the problem. The next few years are going to be very painful for nearly everyone. There will be some, however, who will capitalize off of this ugly mess. They will be people with a lot of cash who will buy houses at unbelievably cheap prices. Don't go out and make a quick dash to your local realtor though, as we're still a long ways from the bottom.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:48 AM   #7
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I think what Bernanke was suggesting was that it might be more efficient for the banks to reduce principal rather than foreclose. Either way, the mortgagees lose money. The question is how to minimize their losses. (And let's not forget that they made bad loans, so they should be expected to feel some of the pain, too.)

What I don't understand is how someone who can't pay a few extra hundred dollars a month on a mortgage payment is going to be able to pay the taxes on a $30,000 (let's say) debt forgiveness.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:51 AM   #8
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What I don't understand is how someone who can't pay a few extra hundred dollars a month on a mortgage payment is going to be able to pay the taxes on a $30,000 (let's say) debt forgiveness.
Ah, but that's where the politicians come in. I've heard the Bush administration wants legislation to exempt forgiven debt from taxation, at least during 2008. And some in Congress are trying to deliver it.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 03-05-2008, 10:14 AM   #9
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I know this is difficult to believe, but there are alot of stupid people out there.
And 3 times as many lazy people.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:26 AM   #10
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You can't fix stupid.

If you make something idiot proof, the world will invent a bigger idiot and the lawyer will still make a profit.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:27 AM   #11
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You can't fix stupid.
No, but we can subsidize it in order to increase its supply.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 03-05-2008, 10:34 AM   #12
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No, but we can subsidize it in order to increase its supply.
An alarmingly astute observation...
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:47 AM   #13
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couldn't have put it better myself. Bravo!
when the lender and loan applicant both sign the contract on the dotted line, there are no clauses for whining or "oops". unless you can produce written proof of incompetency signed by your doc.
if you're gonna dance, you gotta pay the fiddler.
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:05 PM   #14
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No, but we can subsidize it in order to increase its supply.
If I could add a third line to my signature- your post wins the prize.
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:25 PM   #15
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For those of us that are on the right track (or think I am - how's that?!) - is there anything in particular I need to be worried about that might affect me personally? I'm not good with drawing conclusions because the subprime mess seems so far away from me. I do understand that foreclosures will affect my housing price, but we have very low foreclosure rates here (and I'm not moving). Thanks!
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:00 PM   #16
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For those of us that are on the right track (or think I am - how's that?!) - is there anything in particular I need to be worried about that might affect me personally? I'm not good with drawing conclusions because the subprime mess seems so far away from me. I do understand that foreclosures will affect my housing price, but we have very low foreclosure rates here (and I'm not moving). Thanks!
As long as the financial shenanigans of the banks who made these crazy loans, and of the dufii who got into mortgages they can't pay, and of the Fed's printing money like crazy doesn't totally hose the economy...

We'll be okay...
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:48 PM   #17
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For those of us that are on the right track (or think I am - how's that?!) - is there anything in particular I need to be worried about that might affect me personally? I'm not good with drawing conclusions because the subprime mess seems so far away from me. I do understand that foreclosures will affect my housing price, but we have very low foreclosure rates here (and I'm not moving). Thanks!
For me the whole subject of subprime is like hormones. One day I see the glass half full which means the economy will muddle through, the next day I see the glass half empty which means financial meltdown. The meltdown is very scary, today I'm seeing the meltdown as possible, of course I just watched Mark Faber on Bloomberg. Tomorrow who knows.

I do not see subprime as a far away issue at all. The meltdown senario would include a large writedown in the value of my house as well as my financial assets. Wouldn't those things affect you? If you have enough in a gold hedge, you could survive the meltdown, I don't.
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Income taxes on debt forgiveness
Old 03-05-2008, 05:03 PM   #18
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Income taxes on debt forgiveness

has already been waived for the next 3 years. Bernanke is just pointing out lenders will have to be more creative to avoid even larger losses.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:19 PM   #19
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For those of us that are on the right track (or think I am - how's that?!) - is there anything in particular I need to be worried about that might affect me personally? I'm not good with drawing conclusions because the subprime mess seems so far away from me. I do understand that foreclosures will affect my housing price, but we have very low foreclosure rates here (and I'm not moving). Thanks!
Yes. This crisis is gonna spread. The Fed will continue to print money (now they're talking about another 75 point interest rate reduction) and inflation will erode our buying power and the dollar will fall. Get out of dollar-denominated assets if you can, buy some gold or gold stocks or put your money in a fund like the Merk hard currency fund (MERKX) to preserve your capital. Also, you can short financials by buying an ETF like SKF. Refi your house for as long a term, as much money, and as low a fixed interest rate as you can get and put the money in MERKX. Or get a HELOC on your house and put the money in MERKX. Then, as the dollar falls, your capital will increase and when it's all over you will have many more $s and can pay off the loan with cash to spare.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:34 PM   #20
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I agree with everything you say. I might add that a large percentage of our population is in denial as to the seriousness of the problem. The next few years are going to be very painful for nearly everyone. There will be some, however, who will capitalize off of this ugly mess. They will be people with a lot of cash who will buy houses at unbelievably cheap prices. Don't go out and make a quick dash to your local realtor though, as we're still a long ways from the bottom.
Here in Boston, I'm starting to see a few condos that are comparable to rent even when you figure in the mortgage, the taxes, and the condo fees, but these make up the one out ten that are affordable because the investor or contractor has already made his money on the other condo units. When I see half of all condos approach what rent would cost, I'll know that it's time look again.
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