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Old 01-19-2015, 09:08 PM   #81
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I had a coworker who drove a Prius. He gave me crap re: driving a Chrysler 300C with the HEMI. I got 22 MPG on my 33 mile each way commute. He got 39 MPG on his 64 mile each way commute. He figured it out one day. Then I just laughed at him every time I saw him.
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:34 PM   #82
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This thread reminds me of the first rule of human stupidity: Quote:
Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid people in circulation.
wait...since it's probably stupid to underestimate the number of stupid people, that means everyone is stupid?
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:34 PM   #83
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I had a coworker who drove a Prius. He gave me crap re: driving a Chrysler 300C with the HEMI. I got 22 MPG on my 33 mile each way commute. He got 39 MPG on his 64 mile each way commute. He figured it out one day. Then I just laughed at him every time I saw him.

That can't be correct. A Prius gets at LEAST 48 MPG worst case. That's sticker and its almost always higher. Mine averages low 50's. Your HEMI sucks almost three time as much gas to go the same distance. Laugh all you want. Your paying a lot more to haul your butt around than he is.


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Old 01-19-2015, 09:38 PM   #84
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I had a coworker who drove a Prius. He gave me crap re: driving a Chrysler 300C with the HEMI. I got 22 MPG on my 33 mile each way commute. He got 39 MPG on his 64 mile each way commute. He figured it out one day. Then I just laughed at him every time I saw him.

Bigdawg you reminded me of a friend asking me question a few years ago. He mentioned he was thinking about buying a Prius to save on gas costs. Back then there was a huge price difference between the gas and electric cars. I told him have you figured out how many gallons of gas it would take to make up the price difference. He said no he hadn't even thought about that. I said well if you are doing it to be green I guess the price doesn't matter but since you are plugging into a coal plant I don't know if you are doing much good there either. I never heard him ever bring it up again.


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Old 01-19-2015, 10:01 PM   #85
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A standard Prius doesn't plug in anywhere, so there is no associated coal power plant pollution. I recently saw a bar chart showing the total emissions for each type of fuel, taking into account the emissions from the plant generating the electricity, and IIRC the hybrid did better than the plug-in all electric. Sadly, I can't find the chart right now.

I will agree that, it generally only makes financial sense to have a hybrid if : a) you put substantial mileage on your car and b) gasoline prices are high. In my case, I have a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. I drive over 100 miles per day and gas prices here in CT are very high. When I bought the car, the federal income tax credit and state sales tax elimination made the cost of my hybrid equal to the cost of a regular Civic, so the savings were immediate and substantial - roughly $800-1000 per year on gas. However, given that I recently had to pay $2400 to replace the IMA battery pack, I'm probably only about $3500-4000 ahead after 7 years.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:05 PM   #86
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So I can keep my man badge, I confess to owning four pickups in the forty-five years I've been driving, including the nineteen years preceding the Prius purchase.

There are less expensive alternatives to the Prius, some with fairly impressive highway mpg. But mpg drops dramatically for city driving, whereas the Prius stays steady at 50-ish.

I do miss having a truck a few times a year.


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Old 01-19-2015, 10:18 PM   #87
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A standard Prius doesn't plug in anywhere, so there is no associated coal power plant pollution. I recently saw a bar chart showing the total emissions for each type of fuel, taking into account the emissions from the plant generating the electricity, and IIRC the hybrid did better than the plug-in all electric. Sadly, I can't find the chart right now.



I will agree that, it generally only makes financial sense to have a hybrid if : a) you put substantial mileage on your car and b) gasoline prices are high. In my case, I have a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. I drive over 100 miles per day and gas prices here in CT are very high. When I bought the car, the federal income tax credit and state sales tax elimination made the cost of my hybrid equal to the cost of a regular Civic, so the savings were immediate and substantial - roughly $800-1000 per year on gas. However, given that I recently had to pay $2400 to replace the IMA battery pack, I'm probably only about $3500-4000 ahead after 7 years.

Yes, Gumby you are correct. I didn't flesh out my thoughts as it was just the backhanded comment I had made. I know now how they operate, but back then when they first came out the only thing I knew was they cost a lot more. My friend and I were both stupid in that regards!
Your chart reference made me pull up an article I read recently saying that electric cars can produce 86% more deaths from air pollution than gas cars do if plugged into the coal grid. But if you plug them into a clean grid you save lives. I am just posting the link to confirm what I wrote. I do not know how they come up with these crazy numbers. If nothing else it is humorous.

http://www.startribune.com/285860511.html


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Old 01-19-2015, 10:51 PM   #88
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My dad was self employed his entire life. He was the hardest working person I ever had to privilege to know.

He always told me to think hard before I bought something like a car or truck. He made sure I understood if it was a want or a need.

I followed his plan from my early years until today. My dad would be a 100 years old this year if he had lived. I can hear him now reminding me on how to handle money and I listen

A man once owed my dad $2000.00. This was in the early 60's so that was a lot of money for the time. This man run into my mother one day while at the local post office. She told him if he paid his debt to her husband he would not have that nice car. He tossed the keys to her and said you can have it because the bank owned most of it.

My mother did not know what to say but she always reminded me to never end up like that man. I kept my promise. oldtrig
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:13 PM   #89
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I will agree that, it generally only makes financial sense to have a hybrid if : a) you put substantial mileage on your car and b) gasoline prices are high. In my case, I have a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. I drive over 100 miles per day and gas prices here in CT are very high. When I bought the car, the federal income tax credit and state sales tax elimination made the cost of my hybrid equal to the cost of a regular Civic, so the savings were immediate and substantial - roughly $800-1000 per year on gas. However, given that I recently had to pay $2400 to replace the IMA battery pack, I'm probably only about $3500-4000 ahead after 7 years.

FWIW, when I purchased my hybrid, I estimated I would break even on the extra cost at about 60,000 miles. After owning it for over a year and watching gas prices go up, I changed the estimate to about 45,000 miles. Today, the estimate has moved to about 80,000 miles, but I'm not complaining since overall my wallet is still a bit fatter.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:09 AM   #90
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Not trying to derail and go off topic, there is a reason Prius get made fun of - the owners will not step on the gas for fear of causing 0.01 mpg less. I have a friend with one, he calls it "the golf cart" and he has it because it is fairly cheap to drive as commuter. Prius are fine if that is what you want. Big truck is fine if that is what you want. It's a free country and both owners can be happy.

Smug pollution from a Prius is just as bad as the rolling coal from diesel trucks.
Hybrid cars are the leading cause of smug! Reminds me of this South Park episode:

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Old 01-20-2015, 03:45 AM   #91
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That can't be correct. A Prius gets at LEAST 48 MPG worst case. That's sticker and its almost always higher. Mine averages low 50's. Your HEMI sucks almost three time as much gas to go the same distance. Laugh all you want. Your paying a lot more to haul your butt around than he is.


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Oh oh, I better trade in my Prius. It has always been 46-48 mpg, not 50 mpg. I guess I need to stop gunning the engine at the Vipers and Corvettes at the stoplights.

When I bought it, I checked out other hybrids, and nothing beat the price and the gas mileage. I can go 400 miles for $15.

I see a car as an easy way to get from point A to point B. You get the vehicle for your needs, depending how much stuff you need to move from place to place on a regular basis.

Back to scary stupid. Someone I know has a whole wall in a huge closet, floor to ceiling, filled with shoes-probably spent over $2000 on shoes. She just got married (2nd time), they bought a cavernous brand new house for the 2 of them, and just put an in ground pool in. She cannot understand how I was able to afford to RE. She drives an SUV and has never hauled anything in her life, not even a kid's hockey team.


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Old 01-20-2015, 07:42 AM   #92
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I got rid of a pickup truck years ago, too. I have one of those cheap folding Harbor Freight trailers that fold in half and stand in my garage. It does 99% of what I want and if I need something bigger I can rent a truck at Home Depot for 20 bucks an hour or have something delivered.
Here is one I always get a chuckle out of - seeing guys with a shiny new pickup truck pulling behind it a trailer such as one described above to carry any cargo in order to prevent a single scratch from marring the pristine beauty of said truck. Of course, the payload capacity of the trailer is far less than that of the pickup truck's bed. Now that is a pictorial representation of oxymoron.

I like my trucks aged, with a bit of accomplished patina to them.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:03 AM   #93
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You're probably right - I've seen too much of that to disagree. My ex was that way too. It is the reason we divorced (in fairness to her it was amicable, none of the revenge-seeking behavior seen so often). But I just didn't see any future in living paycheck-to-paycheck for the rest of my life. Otherwise she was very intelligent so the behavior was extremely confounding and frustrating to me.
I've seen this before and I've often wondered about it. DW is blowing money and won't live on a budget to achieve financial security. DH rebels and after failing to convince DW to change her ways gets a divorce. Ex-DW now has a fraction of her former cash flow available even if she had reduced spending to achieve financial security.

Ex-DW is now not only still a big spender at heart she has much less to spend. It makes no sense.

Her only way to resume her previous life style is to find someone with at least the income as her ex-DH that's happy to let her spend freely.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:28 AM   #94
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That can't be correct. A Prius gets at LEAST 48 MPG worst case. That's sticker and its almost always higher. Mine averages low 50's. Your HEMI sucks almost three time as much gas to go the same distance. Laugh all you want. Your paying a lot more to haul your butt around than he is.

I think you're missing the point too. It takes the Hemi driver less gas to get to work because he lives closer. So who's greener? The guy that gets better gas mileage and but still uses more gas? Or the guy that lives closer so uses less gas?

btw...when we had a Prius we rarely got over 48mpg and were usually in the low 40's. Yea if we really paid attention we could get it up there, but it wasn't our driving style.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:35 AM   #95
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But back to the original topic...
Honda Warns Against ‘Stupid’ Auto Loans Driving U.S. Sales Gains - Bloomberg

The part I found interesting in the article:
More than one in four new-car loans in October and November were 73 to 84 months long, according to Experian Plc. The share of new-car loans at those term lengths was less then 10 percent in 2009 and 2010.

My BIL was one of those stats. He was so proud that the dealer got him into a new truck and lowered his payments enough that he could buy a new Harley too. YIKES!!
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:14 AM   #96
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Financing a car to more than 5 years sounds pretty scary to me. At first, I was also thinking that you wouldn't save very much per month, but it's going to depend on how expensive of a vehicle you buy. I've only bought two new vehicles in my life. The first was a 2000 Intrepid, where I financed $20,389 over 60 months at 0.9%. The monthly payment was $347.66

I bought a new 2012 Ram at the end of the model year, and financed about $19,400 at 3.99% for 60 months. Its payment would have been about $358 per month, but I paid it off after 3-4 months. The only reason I financed was because they offered another $500 rebate if I went through their lender.

Running the numbers, if I had financed that Ram for 72 months instead of 60, the payment would have been about $303 per month. Stretching it out to 84 months would have dropped it to $265. IMO, stretching the payment out by two years just to save about $93 per month just doesn't add up, but I guess it would make or break some people.

I recently read a pickup truck test in Car and Driver, and the rigs they tested were around $50-60K, and pretty loaded up. If you were going to finance, say, $50K at 3.99%, the monthly payments would come to:
$921 @60 mo
$782 @72 mo
$683 @84 mo

So in this case, the extra 2 years cuts the payment by $238 per month. That's a pretty noticeable chunk. But I guess it also begs the question...if you need to finance something like this for that long, can you really afford it in the first place?
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:20 AM   #97
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Before being seduced by a used BMW we had matching Chevy Sprints. Did all the rental repair business out of that car, had my telescoping ladder behind the driver's seat and the hatch opened to a heavy mass of tools and spare parts. Could do darn near anything needed with creative loading. Bought mine used and broken and after repairs think I was in it about $500. Never locked it because no thief would bother looking in to see the DeWalt/Bosch/Makita riches within.

After the initial repair I don't recall doing anything but re-attaching a corroded off alternator to battery cable in the years I had it. Gave it no loving maintenance and flogged that car like a Sardinia donkey. In return the little 1 liter three cylinder engine gave me upper 40s mpg. Sure, any crash and I would have been burial spam in a can, but THAT CAR is what economy is about.
Hybrid/battery/pfft.

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Old 01-20-2015, 10:21 AM   #98
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Our formula for buying cars was to purchase in the $20-30K range. Pay half and finance the other half through our Credit Union for 3-4 yrs. When the car was paid off we diverted the car payments toward savings for the next car. We typically kept a car for 8-10 yrs so we haven't had many cars in our lifetime. The old cars went to my MIL.

I bought my Prius in 2009 when gas prices in CA were very high. I had a 45 mile/day commute at the time. I did the math and realized that purchasing a hybrid just for the gas savings didn't make much sense. However, if your old car is really on it's last legs and it is really time to get a new car then then considering gas milage (among other things) makes sense. I've owned a Toyota Corolla and a Subaru Forester so a Prius was in the same class of cars as my previous purchases and was right for my lifestyle at that time (and now).

I don't talk about my car. I love it but it's just a car. Where I live there are Priuses on every block. It's nothing special to talk about.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:48 AM   #99
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I tend to buy cars and drive them til they drop or get totaled, but I've thought about taking a different strategy with my 2012 Ram. It has a 3/36k bumper to bumper warranty and 5/60k powertrain. Well, here I am, about 28 months into it, and it only has about 16,500 miles.

At that rate, it could theoretically last forever. However, I'm guessing that with low mileage, it should also hold its value fairly well. So I've toyed with the idea of trading it for a new one just before the 5/60K warranty is up. It would get me back into a monthly payment, but the trade-in should make for a substantial down payment. And, with such low mileage, I should be dumping it before it needs much in the way of major servicing.

It probably would be more cost effective, to just keep it forever. But, I'll admit I worry about the repair bills of these more modern, high-tech vehicles as they age and are out of warranty.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:50 AM   #100
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calm, I loved the ad for the Sprint. That's my kinda car! Will have to see if any are around when I get ready to change cars again.
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