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Old 04-25-2012, 03:39 PM   #221
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The middle class in this country continues to erode.
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Welcome to globalization...
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Sorry for the hijack, but this all started with Midpack's comment about globalization. Mods, please move or delete.
In response to ripper1, isn't that ironic.

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I think this belongs in another thread. How does all this tie in with pension reform in Illinois. C'mon, moderators.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:59 PM   #222
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[mod hat on]Threads go off topic all the time and may or may not meander back to center--nothing in the Community Rules against that, so not really a moderation issue.

You can report a post and suggest the moderators create a separate thread, although it is usually difficult to pull out the off topic posts (especially in an 11-page thread) and still keep sense in both the original and the new thread. You can also start a new thread on your own.[/mod hat off]
Yep. As long as the thread doesn't devolve into name calling, overly contentious behavior, excessive sarcasm, political partisanship and other things, it has never been policy to surgically delete or move things that drift from the thread subject -- especially something that IS many pages long already.

In fact (IMO, mod hat off) the best way to get it back on track isn't by chiding others or calling out the moderators to "do their job", but by getting it back on track yourself by posting something to help steer the discussion back.

And in the end, there *is* some correlation between difficulty sustaining US (and by extension, Illinois) pensions and global economic dynamics which make paying for them much more difficult in a globalizing labor market where there are many "lower bidders". So it is a tangent, but not as completely irrelevant and totally off-topic (IMO, mod hat still off) as being claimed.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #223
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In response to ripper1, isn't that ironic.
Right, may not directly relate to Illinois, but I thought it was one factor that has contributed to where we are today with both private and public sectors suffering.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #224
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Well, I must say thanks to all for your articulation and eloquence of this topic and of course others. I find most of you have a lot to offer. Some of you ought to run for office because I'm sure you could do better than this dysfunctional group on steroids we have in Washington. Thank you.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:17 PM   #225
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Quinn to employees: Don't rush to retire - Springfield, IL - The State Journal-Register

Governor Quinn has caused quite a ruckus here in Illinois and is now asking employees not to rush to retire.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:11 AM   #226
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Just read this;

lllinois moves toward state of insolvency - BostonHerald.com

It reads as a pretty complete summary of the train wreck that is Illinois.

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:17 PM   #227
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Just read this;

lllinois moves toward state of insolvency - BostonHerald.com

It reads as a pretty complete summary of the train wreck that is Illinois.

Steel Rain
All because of those damn public employees.....RIGHT?
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:36 PM   #228
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For those of you still interested in this topic Gov Quinn will be on Chicago Tonight 7PM (WTTW)
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:45 PM   #229
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But the Bulls game starts at 7:00 PM.........
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:56 PM   #230
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Just read this;

lllinois moves toward state of insolvency - BostonHerald.com

It reads as a pretty complete summary of the train wreck that is Illinois.

Steel Rain
This link is to an article by George Will, political commentator who writes for the Washington Post and has a clear political viewpoint.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:13 PM   #231
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This link is to an article by George Will, political commentator who writes for the Washington Post and has a clear political viewpoint.
His view regarding the Illinois financial situation doesn't seem out of line with most of what I'm reading/hearing/viewing these days. Perhaps by "political viewpoint" in this case, it's a matter that he's going out his way to point out the facts as opposed to exaggerating or overstating them.

It really is a mess. A close friend who does contract work for the Dept of Children and Family Services hasn't been paid in many months. I hear about it all the time........

Michael, I'm not speaking up for the author. Don't know a thing about him. I'm just saying that when I read this particular article, it was hard to argue that the case the author was making regarding the horrible financial status of Illinois isn't more or less true.

Perhaps I'm just too much of a worrier and therefore find it easy to believe this kind of talk? Everything will be OK? Services will remain functional while corporate and personal income taxes, sales taxes and property taxes won't need to be elevated to the moon? I hope so.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:47 PM   #232
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Youbet, I share many of your concerns regarding Illinois finances and politics. The problems are self inflicted, the core is rotten and the leadership has little credibility. When it comes to data and analysis, however, my preference is for more neutral presentation and less judgement. I'm not commenting on Will's analysis but do not view him as objective.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #233
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The problems are self inflicted, the core is rotten and the leadership has little credibility.
Ding Ding Ding! Congratulations! You're the winner of the youbet understatement of the day award (which hasn't been passed out in a long, long time.) I couldn't agree with you more. And this is spoken by someone who grew up with a picture of Hisssss Honor, The Honorable Richard J Daley hanging proudly on the living room wall.
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When it comes to data and analysis, however, my preference is for more neutral presentation and less judgement.
I agree with you here too Michael. Whether commentary is coming from a lefty or a righty, lack of objectivity and judgemental bias annoy me. And looking back over the article, you're right, there is a judgmental "tone" even if the facts generally seem correct.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:06 PM   #234
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Ding Ding Ding! Congratulations! You're the winner of the youbet understatement of the day award (which hasn't been passed out in a long, long time.) I couldn't agree with you more. And this is spoken by someone who grew up with a picture of Hisssss Honor, The Honorable Richard J Daley hanging proudly on the living room wall.
I'm honored.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #235
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But the Bulls game starts at 7:00 PM.........
You won't miss much they will be gone almost as soon as the Blackhawks.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:06 PM   #236
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All because of those damn public employees.....RIGHT?
No doubt about it. Ignore the information in the recent Frontline episode mentioned here: Money, Power and Wall Street | FRONTLINE | PBS

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." - Wizard of Oz.

That said, even if their were no financial crisis, some states would still be heading towards a train wreck. It would just take a bit longer.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #237
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His view regarding the Illinois financial situation doesn't seem out of line with most of what I'm reading/hearing/viewing these days. Perhaps by "political viewpoint" in this case, it's a matter that he's going out his way to point out the facts as opposed to exaggerating or overstating them.

It really is a mess. A close friend who does contract work for the Dept of Children and Family Services hasn't been paid in many months. I hear about it all the time........

Michael, I'm not speaking up for the author. Don't know a thing about him. I'm just saying that when I read this particular article, it was hard to argue that the case the author was making regarding the horrible financial status of Illinois isn't more or less true.

Perhaps I'm just too much of a worrier and therefore find it easy to believe this kind of talk? Everything will be OK? Services will remain functional while corporate and personal income taxes, sales taxes and property taxes won't need to be elevated to the moon? I hope so.
Maybe he is looking for another Pulitzer. I think he should write articles about his beloved Chicago Cubs and then maybe he will get more attention.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:46 AM   #238
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All because of those damn public employees.....RIGHT?
Um, no. Certainly part of the problem to be sure, but overall out of control spending is the real issue. Corruption and shameless vote pandering has a high cost as well.

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Old 04-27-2012, 05:50 AM   #239
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Youbet, I share many of your concerns regarding Illinois finances and politics. The problems are self inflicted, the core is rotten and the leadership has little credibility. When it comes to data and analysis, however, my preference is for more neutral presentation and less judgment. I'm not commenting on Will's analysis but do not view him as objective.
Unfortunately, most do not have the time or capacity to grind out independent results for issues like this. Objective assessment is never going to be happen anyway. Personally, I use a preponderance of the evidence approach and the numbers and conclusions seem consistent with what I have read and heard over the last few years.

Steel
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:14 AM   #240
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Unfortunately, most do not have the time or capacity to grind out independent results for issues like this. Objective assessment is never going to be happen anyway. Personally, I use a preponderance of the evidence approach and the numbers and conclusions seem consistent with what I have read and heard over the last few years.

Steel
Between think tanks and Universities there is an abundance of research on just about any topic. I find The Pew Trust to be very helpful regarding States finances, for example.
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