Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 02-02-2005, 09:35 AM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 85
Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

Pretty damn scary...

double check your insurance coverages!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...l_bankruptcies
__________________

__________________
LRAO is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 02-02-2005, 09:40 AM   #2
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 909
Send a message via ICQ to Marshac Send a message via AIM to Marshac Send a message via Yahoo to Marshac
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

I heard that on NPR this morning on the drive to work. What really hit me was the statement that most of the people declared bankruptcies for medical debts under $12k. Just shows you how close to the margin most Americans are living these days.
__________________

__________________
Marshac is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 02-02-2005, 09:45 AM   #3
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

I am often shocked when I hear stats like that. It does
illustrate my point on another thread that for millions in
this country, $50.00 a day would be "livin'large".

JG
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 02-02-2005, 09:51 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Hyperborea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,008
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

Quote:
I am often shocked when I hear stats like that. *It does
illustrate my point on another thread that for millions in
this country, $50.00 a day would be "livin'large".
Only because they'd either have company provided health coverage (which they would lose when they lost their job due to illness as per the study) or they'd run without it.
__________________
Hyperborea is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 02-03-2005, 04:33 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 902
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

Quote:
Even wealthy folks can lose everything from health problems... even if they purchased insurance. *All it takes is one long term health problem. *You have insurance now, but your healthcare insurance company can drop you like yesterday's news if you get sick and they know you will be sick going forward.
I would still be working if there hadn't been an early retirement offer that included lifetime access to my employer's group plan, which transfers to my wife if I die. I must pay the premium, but they can't drop me, and they can't raise my rates without raising the entire group. There's no lifetime max either. It's expensive though.
__________________
Bob_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 02-03-2005, 06:39 PM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 909
Send a message via ICQ to Marshac Send a message via AIM to Marshac Send a message via Yahoo to Marshac
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

Quote:
but they can't drop me
As long as they stay in business
__________________
Marshac is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 02-03-2005, 06:55 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 902
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

Quote:

As long as they stay in business
Going out of business isn't likely - it's the State.
__________________
Bob_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 08-29-2005, 09:44 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,375
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

Quote:
Originally Posted by davew894
Even wealthy folks can lose everything from health problems... even if they purchased insurance. *All it takes is one long term health problem. *You have insurance now, but your healthcare insurance company can drop you like yesterday's news if you get sick and they know you will be sick going forward. *Then you can't get coverage elsewhere. *They can bump your premiums sky high. *You can meet the upper limits of what they will pay and then it's out of your own money.

Healthcare in the US leaves a lot to be desired.
Davew894: Well, hard to argue with your last sentence, but you are wrong about a couple of major points in the main text.
An insurance company, on initial underwriting, can, of course refuse to accept you.
Once you have been accepted, they cannot drop you individually as a risk, regardless of your future health problems.
They can also not single you out for a rate increase.
I know this because I'm old.



__________________
Jarhead* is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..
Old 08-29-2005, 09:52 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,156
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-Jarhead
Once you have been accepted, they cannot drop you individually as a risk, regardless of your future health problems.
They can also not single you out for a rate increase.
I know this because I'm old.
Jarhead, thankfully you are correct. Err...I'm thankful insurance co's can't drop you or raise individual rates if you get sick, not that you are 'old'.


REW
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-29-2005, 11:44 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

I hear this stuff from the "left" while the "right" says that it is people being irresponsible. I would suspect that the truth is in the middle somewhere. From what I see this new bankruptcy law seems reasonable.
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-29-2005, 05:04 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

My health insurance experience is 35 years in the US and 20 years overseas? It's a mixed bag as to which system is more effective. But one thing is clear, here in the US we can get to a specialist without the stop to a General Pratisioner like in the UK. There you could wake up blind but you had to go to the GP and be "referred" to a eye specialist in a few weeks. Don't condem our system till you've lived thru some others.

In Australia 1990-1997, the technology was about 5 years behind the US. To get an MRI was like asking for vacation on the moon. No antibiotics, the country is fanatical that antibiotics are the worst evil on the earth.

In UK 1997-2005, their system cost you nothing for visits with at GP and only a few GBPs for a perscription. But any of us who need any surgery were advised to head back to the US. Hospitals varied but just read the papers, major problems with cleanliness. Superbugs are killing many. Waiting lines are huge, even for major problems like cancer, organ replacement.

I like the US model.
__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-29-2005, 07:35 PM   #12
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

Jarhead and REW, federal law (HIPAA) does require guaranteed renewability of individual health plans (though the insurer can cancel the plan for everyone). However, HIPAA is silent on premium increases. A number of states do not prohibit insurers in the individual market from increasing rates based on claims or age of covered individuals. Some states require community rating of health insurance premiums. No policyholder can be charged more than any other based on health status, health history, or other risk factors. Other states require modified community rating with adjustments permitted for age, but not health status. Yet other states impose rating bands that limit how much premiums can vary based on health status, age, and other factors.

Because there are no national rules on rates, the guaranteed renewal may or may not be helpful to a particular individual because they could be priced out of the market due to age or illness.


__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-29-2005, 08:17 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,156
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
...HIPAA is silent on premium increases. A number of states do not prohibit insurers in the individual market from increasing rates based on claims or age of covered individuals.
As usual, you are correct Martha. Rate change regulations do vary by state. A good place to review state health insurance information is http://www.healthinsuranceinfo.net/ In my case (TX), an individual cannot be singled out for premium increases based on claims:

"...[W]hen you renew your individual health coverage, an insurer can increase your premiums. However, premium increases must be applied to all persons in your class and not on an individual basis. A class may be grouped by age, sex, or by each individual health plan product."

REW
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-29-2005, 08:37 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

My current and previous 2 US PPOs as well as my last HMO (in 3 different states) all require(d) me to get a referral to a specialist from my primary care dr. In fact, a couple of years ago I was referred to a specialist from another specialist. When I showed up for the appointment, they refused to see me unless I paid $50 upfront instead of my nomal $15 copay, as if I came in off the street. No referral from primary care doc, no $15 copay. And this was in the same building as the referring specialist! Man, was I ticked--I refused to pay, the doc refused to see me, I never went back. I personally don't think our system could be much worse.
__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
astromeria is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-29-2005, 09:11 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,914
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

Speaking of HIPPA.. My mother had a broken hip a couple years ago which was fixed by an ortho associated with a local hospital.* Mom lives in a nursing home.* Recently a person from the ortho office called my brother (the appointed contact person) to inquire about her current ADLs (activities of daily living).* So far so good, until the person mentioned that she could see that Mom had a recent bladder infection.* SAY WHAT

It appears that the ortho office could look at her medical record at the local hospital (who does her lab work).

I don't object to health practioners having access to health history when they are treating a patient, but this surgeon hadn't seen Mom in years. What gives
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-30-2005, 07:53 AM   #16
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

Brat, HIPAA doesn't give as much privacy rights as people often think. Consent to the use of your mother's medical information is not required if it is used or disclosed for treatment, payment, or health care operations.

Most of the privacy protections have to do with sharing medical information with employers and for marketing purposes.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Malcolm Gladwell on Health Insurance
Old 08-30-2005, 12:47 PM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Malcolm Gladwell on Health Insurance

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../050829fa_fact

IMO, an excellent article which goes to the center of our weird American obsession with individual independence. Even the healthiest person in the world is nuts to want to shoulder his own health costs, because they could suddenly go from 0 to $250,000. Who gets Hodgkin's disease? Melanoma? Testicular cancer? Lots of young healthy people do, along with the older folks.

Risk sharing is not only humane, it is prudent.

Also, often we mistakenly think the waits in other countries, when they in fact do exist, result from the organization of care. More likely, they result from the fact that those systems are being operated on many fewer $s per capita. Nothing to prevent the USA from using the greater efficiency and good sense of a social insurance system, but funding it more highly.

Haha

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-30-2005, 01:43 PM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

Excellent article. Interesting info on per capita spending:

Americans spend $5,267 per capita on health care every year, almost two and half times the industrialized world’s median of $2,193; the extra spending comes to hundreds of billions of dollars a year. What does that extra spending buy us? Americans have fewer doctors per capita than most Western countries. We go to the doctor less than people in other Western countries. We get admitted to the hospital less frequently than people in other Western countries. We are less satisfied with our health care than our counterparts in other countries. American life expectancy is lower than the Western average.

The point about bad teeth as a class divider is well made.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-30-2005, 01:59 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

martha: how do you know all of this so well?
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...
Old 08-30-2005, 02:23 PM   #20
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Illness as the primary cause of bankruptcies...

My high IQ?

I am very interested in health insurance and in a national solution to health insurance issues. I also have participated in lobbying efforts to eliminate cuts to MinnesotaCare, a subsidized health insurance program for otherwise uninsured poor in Minnesota.


__________________

__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
special tax rules for military selling primary residence? WM FIRE and Money 8 05-23-2009 10:52 AM
PUB 523 - Excluding the Gain (primary Residence) ERD50 FIRE and Money 16 08-13-2006 03:10 PM
Primary residence ER@40 Life after FIRE 8 06-29-2005 12:15 AM
TIPS as primary asset for retirement assets jsbindex FIRE and Money 8 03-03-2005 09:51 AM
TIPS as primary retirement asset??? jsbindex Other topics 5 02-28-2005 12:11 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:47 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.