Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 09:51 AM   #61
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
the US Bureau of Labor Statistics does a pretty good job.
Good enough that when their numbers are 10-20% off from what people "expect", that its worthwhile to raise or drop the dow 200 points?

Didnt think so.
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 10:09 AM   #62
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outtahere
Okay so as I see what Max said about this woman.
Hired her as a single healthy person (I'm assuming she was the best candidate for the job)
First day of work she shows up, says* she's now pregnant and spotting.
Second day of work she doesn't show up because she is now disabled and you have to pay her a years salary to replace her.* Otherwise the rest of your staff will have to pick up the slack for this woman who really never worked a day for you.*
If I were the other employees (male or female) I'd be very upset if he didn't do something about her.* *The whole thing smells of scam to me, get hired knowing I'm pregnant and having problems, get said employer to fund the pregnacy.* Now all the good employees that have been there pulling their weight have to do extra?* Yep, I'd be pretty upset.
You can bet if someone did that here I'd be calling our lawyer pronto to figure out the least costly way to get rid of her.*
Gosh, how manipulative. Was this woman scheming for a year's salary or just hoping to find a way to pay the hospital bills when she delivered? Instead of seeking a means to support her family, should she stay at home collecting welfare until the kid is old enough for state-subsidized childcare or to be "repossessed" by the govt?

Employees are pretty much at the mercy of the boss when it comes to hiring. They probably didn't get a controlling vote on whether this woman was the best candidate for the job, so it's easy to blame the boss when the hire isn't able to show up and immediately start slaving away being productive. It's easy to criticize a decision that you had no responsibility for. That's human nature.

Presumably a hiring manager would be able to interview enough candidates to feel confident that, no matter what happens tomorrow or in the short term, the employees they hire are the best long-term prospect for the job. If a hiring manager can't arrive at that conclusion then perhaps a part-time or contract hire would've been a better solution. JG was the only manager I knew who was proud of his "hire & fire till I get lucky" system.

But gosh, it's easier to say "My employees would've killed me" than to admit "I didn't try all the other alternatives and I made a bad hire." It might be just a coincidence that Max has a record of misogyny on other discussion boards. Or he might be a crappy hiring manager. But it's easier to blame the scheming, lying, manipulative job candidate who so easily pulled the wool over his eyes and blackmailed him for hush money. And heaven forbid that the business either got temporary help from another division or even rearrange the workload priorities.

But if I was one of the remaining employees, I think I'd be a little nervous about the next time I needed time off for a medical issue. Would I be released & given a year's severance, too? Or would I hope that my employer would understand that this is a temporary problem and support me in my time of need? The company could have supported this woman during her pregnancy-- arguably a temporary issue-- and gained a lifetime of gratitude & hard work from her. Instead they chose to cut her off as quickly as possible, thereby raising their turnover and their employee-hiring costs. There's a reason that Wal-Mart's employee turnover is so high and Costco's is so low, and it has a lot to do with the way the company's management treats their employees-- either as valuable resources or fungible widgets.

Whenever a new guy reported aboard, the rest of the crew would be a little hesitant to invest their time & energy in training & assistance until they could tell whether things would work out. You hated to put all your effort into getting them off to a good start, only to have them turn up with long-lasting medical problems or personal issues. But as a manager you have to expect that this will happen to a certain percentage of your new "hires", and you have to adapt without blaming the consequences on your remaining employees or on some fixed production requirement. If I couldn't do my job for some reason, I knew that I wouldn't be able to blame it on someone's pregnancy.
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 10:24 AM   #63
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Outtahere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,677
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

So there's no one out there that wouldn't try something like that? get real. People pull that kind of "manipulation" everyday, it's called playing the system whether it's a goverment program like welfare or an employer trying to run a business.
__________________

Dogs aren't our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. - Roger Caras
Outtahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 10:30 AM   #64
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

In Maxies case, I'd probably go with the incompetence/misogyny as its the most likely culprit.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 10:41 AM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outtahere

Hired her as a single healthy person (I'm assuming she was the best candidate for the job)
Maritial and pregnancy status are not one of the things we are allowed to ask about when making hiring decisions here in the USA. *If you denied a person employment based on being single or married or being pregnant or not pregnant, you might just be sticking your chin out for a little knuckle sandwich from the EEOC.

However, I haven't hired anyone in over two years (we're laying off ), so perhaps my memory of that is not correct.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 10:43 AM   #66
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outtahere
So there's no one out there that wouldn't try something like that? get real.* *People pull that kind of "manipulation" everyday, it's called playing the system whether it's a goverment program like welfare or an employer trying to run a business.*
Luckily they seem to gravitate toward hiring managers like Max.

He was the one offering the full-time job with the benefits. *If he'd been even a little concerned about the employee he could've gone with a temp, a part-time contract, or even a realignment/elimination of the vacancy's responsibilities. *Let's not ignore the fact that his hiring decision cost the company far more money than the employee would have cost them in medical-insurance premiums.

But it's much easier to blame the employee.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 10:45 AM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
In Maxies case, I'd probably go with the incompetence/misogyny as its the most likely culprit.
Suddenly, I feel enlightened.*
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 11:29 AM   #68
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Outtahere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,677
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Setting aside who had the job opening and who (Max) did the hiring it's pretty hard not to be suspicious given the facts as he presented them. You can be a top notch hiring manager and still one or two will get past you and once they are hired it does cost the company time and money to deal with the fallout. Hiring today is like walking a minefield blindfolded and every mine you step on costs the company (me) money.
__________________

Dogs aren't our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. - Roger Caras
Outtahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 11:41 AM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillion
samclem, your own Country's Statistics show a growing Wealthy Class a Growing Poor Class, a Shrinking Middle Class.
First, it may be misleading to speak of "classes" in the US. While there are people who are weaalthy, poor, and comfortabe at any particular time, this is by no means a static situation-people move up and down the scale at a fairly rapid clip. IMO, this is a sign of a healthy system.

Second, since there's no authoritative definition of these "classes" in the US, anything concerning their relative sizes and rates of growth/shrinkage has scant meaning. It sounds like campaign lingo to me--it only takes a second to check . . ..

I'm back.

I didn't do an extensive research pull, but did find this: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/b...ancesurvey.pdf
*******************************
"The Federal Reserve Board’s Survey of Consumer Finances for 2004 provides insights into changes in
family income and net worth since the 2001 survey. The survey shows that, over the 2001–04 period, the median value of real (inflation-adjusted) family income before taxes continued to trend up, rising
1.6 percent, whereas the mean value fell 2.3 percent. Patterns of change were mixed across demographic groups."
***********************************

A rising median income and a falling mean income is inconsistent with a scenario of the poor getting poorer--it is not happening (at least it wasn't between 2001 and 2004, the most current figures I found)

__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 02:37 PM   #70
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

The MA law is misdirected because it puts the burden on companies to provide insurance (or pay a penalty). The law reinforces a model where the states regulate heath insurance and companies' pay for it through group plans.

imo we should:
-regulate at the fed level so that people can purchase insurance and get heath care services in any state. I think there was a bill proposed by some house republicans to do this.
-abandon the group insurance model and decouple health insurance from employment.
-expand medicare so that everyone is covered for basic services.


__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 04:33 PM   #71
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
imo we should:
-regulate at the fed level so that people can purchase insurance and get heath care services in any state.* I think there was a bill proposed by some house republicans to do this.
-abandon the group insurance model and decouple health insurance from employment.
-expand medicare so that everyone is covered for basic services.
Won't argue with the basics of your point of view but must we wait for the fed to act to do something
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 06:08 PM   #72
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Good enough that when their numbers are 10-20% off from what people "expect", that its worthwhile to raise or drop the dow 200 points?

Didnt think so.
But that doesn't make the numbers bull#@t. It makes the response to the numbers irrational.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 06:28 PM   #73
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 569
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

nords et al, there are No Health bills, what she got was a salary to stay home.

She would then receive up to a Years income when the Baby was delivered as this is our maternity/paternity programme.

I ignore the snide comments because as someone who occupide the office on the top floor, that is something that you learn to deal with, but my point for those with open minds is that because you encounter a person who abuses the system, do not blame them all and then discriminate.i

I noticed another thread dealing with the Race Card, hopefully the person treated this as an isolated incident.

Oh nords, you don't like my communication skills, well all my Secretaries dont' work for me anymore, they were the ones responsible for dumbing down my communications and checking spelling etc etc.

Me, I got paid very well to, produce results.
__________________
Maximillion is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 06:29 PM   #74
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

I guess we can split that hair all day. In my opinion, a number thats taken very seriously that incoporates some estimation/invention/extrapolation that can cause major market movements if its off by a degree thats well within the error range of the extrapolation...is bullshit.

The number is bullshit, and the response is rational because most people dont know the number is bullshit. If everyone knew that a portion of the number was invented, and still took it seriously as anything other than a broad indicator...that'd be irrational.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-10-2006, 06:31 PM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Hey maxie...according to your photo your dog is carrying your big red dildo around. Better grab it before it gets teeth marks in it.

Bet, you're Longing for the good Old days when one of The girls kept track of, it...for you;.!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-11-2006, 09:15 AM   #76
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law


MA governor Mitt Romney explains the genesis of the plan and it's major features. Not hard core analysis of cause and effect, and it does gloss over some issues, but it gives a good overview of the approach they took in crafting it.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110008213

__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-11-2006, 09:49 AM   #77
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

With private insurance finally affordable, I proposed that everyone must either purchase a product of their choice or demonstrate that they can pay for their own health care. It's a personal responsibility principle.


I can see it now. Two inmates sitting side by side.
Inmate #1: "What are you in for?"
Inmate #2: "They say I killed someone. You?"
Inmate #1: "They say I don't have health insurance."


__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-11-2006, 02:38 PM   #78
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
MA governor Mitt Romney explains the genesis of the plan and it's major features. Not hard core analysis of cause and effect, and it does gloss over some issues, but it gives a good overview of the approach they took in crafting it.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110008213
Much of this seems OK... like making it easy for people to sign up for Medicaid. However, the more people that get signed up, the more expensive that program gets.

Here's my favorite part: "The solution we came up with was to make private health insurance much more affordable. Insurance reforms now permit policies with higher deductibles, higher copayments, coinsurance, provider networks and fewer mandated benefits like in vitro fertilization--and our insurers have committed to offer products nearly 50% less expensive ."

Then there's the magic of using a money that's funded by assessments on insurance companies and hospitals (plus some fed and state money), and instead of giving it back to those who provided free care, use it as a subsidy.

These are tweaks to the current system and will probably help some poor people get insurance.

__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-11-2006, 02:46 PM   #79
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
tryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,449
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

Quote:
our insurers have committed to offer products nearly 50% less expensive
Wow ... MA might actually compete with nieghboring states.

As I said earlier ... COBRA when I FIRE'd last year in MA was $1054/mo for a family of 4. NH BC/BS family of 4 ..... $580/mo.
__________________
FIRE'd since 2005
tryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law
Old 04-11-2006, 03:00 PM   #80
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Re: Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

An interesting philosphical point--how did it get to te point that the government would be considering making mandatory that everybody buy a particular service (health insurance)? Is there anything else that the government makes everybody purchase?

- I guess the reasoning is this: The government or others (the insured, hospitals, etc) bear the burden when uninsured folks are provided medical care and don't/can't pay for it. Since this hurts everyone in these groups, we won't allow people not to have insurance.

-- Should an individual be allowed to go without insurance if he/she understands he/she will receive no free/subsidized health care? This is simlar to the laws concerning motorcycle helmets and car seatbelts --if the individual waives the right to subsidized health care in an accident, should they be free to ride around without a seat belt or helmet (regardless of the stupidity of it)?

__________________

__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
health insurance


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Health Insurance, yet again (Martha are you out there?) Sheryl FIRE and Money 0 03-18-2007 06:33 PM
International Health Insurance Rob Health and Early Retirement 8 03-09-2007 10:38 PM
Poll on Health Insurance Costs for a married Couple with no kids Cut-Throat Health and Early Retirement 13 02-12-2007 01:12 AM
Individual Health Insurance in Florida - A Case Study tomz Health and Early Retirement 3 01-13-2007 07:11 AM
American Medical Security Health Insurance mark500 Life after FIRE 1 06-01-2006 08:48 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.