Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
In Retirement, Too, Money Isn't Everything
Old 01-13-2008, 01:19 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,616
In Retirement, Too, Money Isn't Everything

"In Retirement, Too, Money Isn't Everything" by Jonathan Clements

Getting Going - WSJ.com

It looks like this forum provides a few things that are helpful: Making Plans, Finding Purpose, Keeping Company, Staying Sharp, Talking It Through, Staying Healthy.

So find some purpose in talking this article through with the good company you find here that I think stays pretty sharp.
__________________

__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-13-2008, 03:21 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Quote:
"The number one predictor of whether people have a successful retirement is the strength of their social network," Ms. Altmix says. "When people leave the work force, they leave their social network behind. And then they sometimes leave the state and move elsewhere."
This is one of main factors that DW resists moving elsewhere. I told her that she does not have a strong social network anyway except her mom and that we can always establish a new one if we moved to a different location (or state) preferably close to relatives and some friends.
__________________

__________________
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 03:26 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,616
Have your wife participate in an online social network like this one. Then you can move anywhere as long as you have an internet connection there.
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 04:56 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
most people's vision of retirement can be summed up in two words: Blissful sloth. Yet that isn't a prescription for a happy retirement.
Don't tell me what should make me happy.

Quote:
Retirees need a purpose, something they feel is both enjoyable and important.
See above.

It is enjoyable and important to watch the squirrels.

Quote:
But intellectual stimulation is also a good reason to continue working part-time, even if you don't need the income.
Meetings, BS bingo, office politics, men blithering about sports, women blithering about shopping, trying to explain something to a supervisor who doesn't know a database from a carburetor...

The only thing stimulated was my blood pressure.

Quote:
Work also provides camaraderie. You lose that when you leave the work force -- and you need to find it elsewhere.
With all that intellectual stimulation, camaraderie, and purposefulness why would anyone ever want to leave the joy of work for the misery and boredom of retirement?
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 05:17 PM   #5
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
This is one of main factors that DW resists moving elsewhere. I told her that she does not have a strong social network anyway except her mom and that we can always establish a new one if we moved to a different location (or state) preferably close to relatives and some friends.
People are so different. Some of us have moved dozens of times in life, and haven't ever developed a strong social network (and don't miss it). That would be Frank and me. Others have spent their lives near home and find the idea of moving away from home to be pretty disconcerting. And still others have had different experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
Don't tell me what should make me happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
It is enjoyable and important to watch the squirrels.
Absolutely. Luckily, retirees are not identical robots with identical goals, identical interests, or identical perceptions, so we need not lead identical lives. Stereotypes can be smothering, but suggestions are nice. This type of article is best digested with a grain of salt.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 05:47 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,457
Quote:
But intellectual stimulation is also a good reason to continue working part-time, even if you don't need the income.
One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?

Oh well, it's just part of the "work forever" propaganda/mentality/brainwash.

Audrey
__________________
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 06:22 PM   #7
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?

Oh well, it's just part of the "work forever" propaganda/mentality/brainwash.

Audrey
Yep, if you're not working you are probably watching Oprah and "reality TV".
__________________

NotSoonEnough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 09:15 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
I think one thing we can sometimes forget is that most articles are written for the broad middle of the population.

The group that has found its way here, and stayed, is clearly very different in many ways, not the least of which is how satisfied we can be with lessened social contact.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 09:19 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,616
Wow, you guys have really gone overboard with unwarranted criticism. I saw nothing in the article that stated one should not retire and keep working forever. Did I blow the link?
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 09:41 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,432
I suspect alot of the mockery and criticism is directed at his first 5 points, which
struck me as almost setting up a business environment to properly enjoy retirement.
"Talking It Through" sounds like setting up meetings, "Making Plans" said that
without a plan boredom would set in after 6 months, "Finding a Purpose" implies
that working for free might be necessary, etc.
__________________
learn, work, save, invest, fire
CyclingInvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 09:44 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Let's keep in mind that Jonathan Clements has just as much retirement credibility as Scott Burns.

Reading their columns is like reading a book about sex. They're good with numbers, they talk a great game, and they can paint pretty pictures with words... but somehow they just can't seem to close the deal.

I'd reserve more sympathy & pity for them than hostility. Actually they seem to have found their avocations and they're probably paying Social Security & Medicare taxes, so perhaps we should thank them!
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 10:04 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,616
OK, I'll just put out the OPPOSITE of what was in the article. You should see how ludricous what I write is:

Making Plans: Don't make any plans to retire. You don't have to worry about whether you will have enough money at all. Just do it.

Finding Purpose: Just retire. You don't need to have a purpose. You can lay in bed all day while watching TV and surfing the internet with your laptop. You won't ever get bored. It's awesome!

Staying Sharp: Any intellectual stimulation is to be avoided. Even reading this post is too much stimulation for you, so you might as well stop here.

Keeping Company: You don't need any camaraderie. You can be a hermit and/or misanthrope. Don't look that word up, it's too much intellectual stimulation and could blow your blissful retirement.

Talking It Through: No need to discuss retirement with your spouse. You want to keep them clueless.

Staying Healthy: What's the point? You are laying in bed watching TV, stuffing your face with junk food like Cheet-ohs (puffed beaver cheese?), maybe drinking beer until you fall asleep. You don't need to be healthy. You ain't gonna be talking to your spouse or interacting with anybody else anyways.
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 10:20 PM   #13
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 355
There I was, choosing between my job and the danger of being bored.
__________________
heyyou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 10:21 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Goonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North-Central Illinois
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?
I agree! I have a lot of hobbies and activities that keep my brain active.......Don't need no stinkin' j*b for that!!! I get more intellectual stimulation now than I ever did while w*rking! And besides, if I was still w*rking I'd miss out on my 1 1/2 hours of TV each afternoon......two episodes of "Merv Griffin's Crosswords" and "Jeopardy". It's the only daytime TV I watch, AND it's kind of intellectually stimulating.....best of all it gives me a chance to sit on my duff and take a break from anything else I was doing!

BTW, if you like doing crossword puzzles, check out the "Merv Griffin's Crosswords" puzzle books! I got them for my Mom for Christmas, and she LOVES them! There are 3, Vol. 1 is "easy", Vol. 3 is "difficult", and Vol. 2 is somewhere in between.
__________________
Goonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 11:26 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
Have your wife participate in an online social network like this one. Then you can move anywhere as long as you have an internet connection there.
No, she does not participate in any forum. She rarely talks to her friends or relatives, but she would say that she does not want to move a place in which she does not know anyone. I think the real issue is that she is afraid of change and prefers to stay put.
__________________
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 11:59 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
LOL,
I agree that folks here seem to be stabbing at the article with "their steely knives" instead of actually reading it for what it was intended. I think this quote says it all...

"The research is clear: People who don't have a purpose in life don't live as long as those who do," he says.
That purpose might be volunteering at a local museum, getting involved politically, counseling teenagers, going back to college, writing a book or coaching a kids' sports team."

It says what many other books and articles say about retirement....have a plan of what you WANT to do with the rest of your life rather than just floating and hoping something will come up to keep your mind from turning into Jello.

Many ER'd folks on this very thread have things they do to keep their minds and bodies sharp..surfing, golf, photography, volunteer work, etc. It is not about w*rk...it is about keeping your mind and body focused on good health and your social environment active.

Sometimes some of the folks on this forum remind me of Nursing Home inmates...crabby, stubborn, and hard to please.
__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2008, 07:59 AM   #17
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
LOL,
I agree that folks here seem to be stabbing at the article with "their steely knives" instead of actually reading it for what it was intended. I think this quote says it all...

"The research is clear: People who don't have a purpose in life don't live as long as those who do," he says.
That purpose might be volunteering at a local museum, getting involved politically, counseling teenagers, going back to college, writing a book or coaching a kids' sports team."

It says what many other books and articles say about retirement....have a plan of what you WANT to do with the rest of your life rather than just floating and hoping something will come up to keep your mind from turning into Jello.
(emphasis mine)

Hmm. My mother's purpose in life was to raise her children and be a good wife, but after her children were gone and my father passed away (the year they both retired), she lived another 25+ years until she was two weeks short of age 98. After my father died she moved into a continuous care facility and spent her time socializing with others in her facility, napping, reading, and relaxing. She would occasionally go to exercise class or little concerts or functions that they had in her facility, or played cards with other members, but I would hardly call these a purpose in life. She just had FUN! And no, her mind did not "turn to jello". Her mental acuity remained about like what it was in her 40's, until two months short of her death when all her systems were shutting down.

Good thing she wasn't one of those who had a purpose in life for her retirement during those last 25 years! Of course, I realize that this is just anecdotal but it does raise some questions for me.

When I reach ER, I intend to have fun as well. If I find that I have a purpose in life, then so be it, but I do not plan to push the envelope looking for one.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2008, 10:47 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
Let's keep in mind that Jonathan Clements has just as much retirement credibility as Scott Burns.

Reading their columns is like reading a book about sex. They're good with numbers, they talk a great game, and they can paint pretty pictures with words... but somehow they just can't seem to close the deal.

I'd reserve more sympathy & pity for them than hostility. Actually they seem to have found their avocations and they're probably paying Social Security & Medicare taxes, so perhaps we should thank them!
I'm just jealous because Jonthan Clements makes a really nice living for writing the same 5 columns. He just rotates them and changes a few words.
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2008, 11:11 AM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoonEnough View Post
Yep, if you're not working you are probably watching Oprah and "reality TV".
Oh no, I am still working and watch Oprah & reality TV
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2008, 11:43 AM   #20
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
Sometimes some of the folks on this forum remind me of Nursing Home inmates...crabby, stubborn, and hard to please.
Another slow, fat pitch just hangin' over the plate...
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Money Mag: Can this Retirement Be Saved? deserat FIRE and Money 46 05-21-2007 01:02 PM
Where to save extra retirement money? JohnDoe FIRE and Money 11 03-31-2007 06:43 AM
Money Magazine Retirement Article ShokWaveRider Life after FIRE 71 01-07-2006 06:04 AM
Make your money last in retirement; 5 keys dex FIRE and Money 14 02-09-2005 07:53 AM
Borrowing money during retirement. proud_texan FIRE and Money 2 09-11-2003 06:05 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:25 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.