ERD50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Unfortunately, there is a long standing and serious on-going issue with one of the four siblings in our family. To be concise (OK, I see I failed, but I tried - the full story would take volumes and make your skin crawl), the 'odd one' feels he was cheated by another sibling in a business transaction many years ago (the facts do not back this up in any way, but facts are irrelevant to the 'odd one', and the story is so convoluted as to be humorous, if it weren't so serious). The 'odd one' holds a grudge that has consumed him. He has harassed the other sibling over and over again for years, threatened his business, and harassed the other siblings as we try to mediate the situation (the 'odd one' claims we are 'ganging up on him').
The 'odd one' has not held a job in decades (so no SS due him), and unfortunately, despite everyone, including several counselors, telling our Mother that she needs to let the 'odd one' be independent and responsible, she continually bails him out. She has covered his housing and expenses all this time, his child support, and he has lived with her now for the past decade. Her 'Motherly Love' just won't let her apply the 'tough love' that he needs. And living with her, he has her ear 24/7 and manipulates her into seeing him as the victim in all this.
But she isn't completely blind to the situation. She knows he really isn't responsible with money. So she has established a trust for him, and his share of any inheritance will go to his trust, with the local bank as trustee, with instructions to distribute only the income, plus some discretion to invade principal for health, education, etc. BTW, several years ago, after one of his outbursts, we convinced Mom to take us three siblings off her will/trust as executors, and name the bank as executor/trustees, so he cannot make any ridiculous claims that we 'cheated him' in settling the estate. I'm sure this will cost us all in fees and delays, but far better that than to be in a position for him to accuse us of anything (and he will).
Unlike the other siblings, he is completely dependent on this future inheritance (which, after being divided across 4 siblings, and a fifth share to the grand-kids, isn't really going to provide him with much more than subsistence living). I doubt he understands this. But if he got it in a lump, he'd blow it in no time (and then be after us for all we 'owe him').
Incentive Trusts: Our concern is, that after Mom has passed, there will be no controlling his rage (which has already been seen at a level we would call 'crazy' on several occasions - like 'ready to call 911' crazy), and he will lash out at us, and harass us for everything he feels he was short-changed on, and probably make up new issues out of thin air. At one point, it got so bad that Mom actually did threaten to take him out of the will, and he suddenly (and sickeningly) turned into a little puppy dog, promising to do whatever she wanted. So without that threat in place, we fear what will happen. Restraining orders and such are not easy from what I understand, and likely not very effective. So that leads to the idea of an 'Incentive Trust'.
It took some googling before I found that term, but that will bring up plenty of links/info. What we are thinking of, is having Mom add a clause to his trust, that if he harasses any of us, our businesses, or friends in any way, any negative communication at all, that his distribution for the year will be directed to a charity of the other sibling's choosing. Further occurrences will result in that next year's distribution being withheld, etc. I do think her long time lawyer is pretty aware of all these issues, but I'm looking for info before we approach Mom and the attorney.
I suppose the bank that is trustee will need something like an arbitrator to determine if the threats are legitimate, so that would need to be set up. Of course, the hope is that this is effective, so the threats never materialize. The lawyer and bank may be able to guide us here.
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of trust? Most of the links deal with trying to motivate keeping a job, education incentives, etc, or ongoing drug/alcohol tests. So this is a little different, but very necessary in our view. I do think we can get Mom to understand this, she has seen his rage (but of course tries to overlook it, I guess some parents just want to pretend that 'little Johnny' is a good boy at heart).
Sorry again for the length of this, but it is really a big issue for us, he has made our lives miserable in the past, and we fully expect future problems on an even larger scale. Yes, 'managing from the grave' isn't a great way to go, but I don't see any other path at this stage. Nothing but the threat of withholding money has had any effect on him in the past. Such a sorry state of affairs. Mom is currently recovering from a major operation, so that has brought all this to the front burner.
If there's any bright side to all this, it sure makes me appreciate that my own children are all responsible, and get along well together, and I've told them all that recently. I credit DW for most of that.
Thanks in advance for any input - ERD50
The 'odd one' has not held a job in decades (so no SS due him), and unfortunately, despite everyone, including several counselors, telling our Mother that she needs to let the 'odd one' be independent and responsible, she continually bails him out. She has covered his housing and expenses all this time, his child support, and he has lived with her now for the past decade. Her 'Motherly Love' just won't let her apply the 'tough love' that he needs. And living with her, he has her ear 24/7 and manipulates her into seeing him as the victim in all this.
But she isn't completely blind to the situation. She knows he really isn't responsible with money. So she has established a trust for him, and his share of any inheritance will go to his trust, with the local bank as trustee, with instructions to distribute only the income, plus some discretion to invade principal for health, education, etc. BTW, several years ago, after one of his outbursts, we convinced Mom to take us three siblings off her will/trust as executors, and name the bank as executor/trustees, so he cannot make any ridiculous claims that we 'cheated him' in settling the estate. I'm sure this will cost us all in fees and delays, but far better that than to be in a position for him to accuse us of anything (and he will).
Unlike the other siblings, he is completely dependent on this future inheritance (which, after being divided across 4 siblings, and a fifth share to the grand-kids, isn't really going to provide him with much more than subsistence living). I doubt he understands this. But if he got it in a lump, he'd blow it in no time (and then be after us for all we 'owe him').
Incentive Trusts: Our concern is, that after Mom has passed, there will be no controlling his rage (which has already been seen at a level we would call 'crazy' on several occasions - like 'ready to call 911' crazy), and he will lash out at us, and harass us for everything he feels he was short-changed on, and probably make up new issues out of thin air. At one point, it got so bad that Mom actually did threaten to take him out of the will, and he suddenly (and sickeningly) turned into a little puppy dog, promising to do whatever she wanted. So without that threat in place, we fear what will happen. Restraining orders and such are not easy from what I understand, and likely not very effective. So that leads to the idea of an 'Incentive Trust'.
It took some googling before I found that term, but that will bring up plenty of links/info. What we are thinking of, is having Mom add a clause to his trust, that if he harasses any of us, our businesses, or friends in any way, any negative communication at all, that his distribution for the year will be directed to a charity of the other sibling's choosing. Further occurrences will result in that next year's distribution being withheld, etc. I do think her long time lawyer is pretty aware of all these issues, but I'm looking for info before we approach Mom and the attorney.
I suppose the bank that is trustee will need something like an arbitrator to determine if the threats are legitimate, so that would need to be set up. Of course, the hope is that this is effective, so the threats never materialize. The lawyer and bank may be able to guide us here.
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of trust? Most of the links deal with trying to motivate keeping a job, education incentives, etc, or ongoing drug/alcohol tests. So this is a little different, but very necessary in our view. I do think we can get Mom to understand this, she has seen his rage (but of course tries to overlook it, I guess some parents just want to pretend that 'little Johnny' is a good boy at heart).
Sorry again for the length of this, but it is really a big issue for us, he has made our lives miserable in the past, and we fully expect future problems on an even larger scale. Yes, 'managing from the grave' isn't a great way to go, but I don't see any other path at this stage. Nothing but the threat of withholding money has had any effect on him in the past. Such a sorry state of affairs. Mom is currently recovering from a major operation, so that has brought all this to the front burner.
If there's any bright side to all this, it sure makes me appreciate that my own children are all responsible, and get along well together, and I've told them all that recently. I credit DW for most of that.
Thanks in advance for any input - ERD50