Incredible increase in LTC policy premium

ejman said:
OK, I just completed the online app. I'm relying on you. I hope I am not spammed or otherwise hounded to infinity and beyond!
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sorry-i told you to read it not fill out anything.if you google the web you'll find out more info. i did not know that site would have you fill out a form. 10 years ago when i did my own ltc purchase there were like 10 states incuding my own that had ltc medicaid parterships. go to your states medicaid website yourself and see if they do ltc medicaid partenerships. there are many more know

when i googled i just picked the first one that said medicaid and ltc partnerships sorry



this is an example from my state

http://www.mass.gov/elders/healthcare/masshealth/ltc-exemptions/


my wife and i bought 4 yr policies 10 years ago to give the other spouse time to get an eldercare attorney to help out in case it got serious. an ltc policy with at least 2 full year coverage gives you better negotiating power with the medicaid program-at least in my state.
 
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ejman, I want you to know that gerrym51 is guiding you down the right direction. I would suggest that you read my post above and it really should provide you some assistance when you read from the site that gerrym51 gave you.

As I stated earlier, you have to have bought a state approved partnership policy. These policies have serveral benefits, but the biggest one is the asset protection you will receive once your benefits from your ltci policy has been exhausted and you may need Medicaid. Again read my prior post for more explanation. A partnership policy should have been bought from already and not now.

I know that everyone focuses on going to nursing homes, but what is important is to review you policy for home care. Some policies don't have a waiting period for home health care. More people who want to stay in their home for care and many policies allow for this. The ltci policies will allow you to receive care at home and your spouse will not have to work at the job and then have to come home and care for a sick husband/wife too. This can be very, very exhausting for the healty spouse.

I would look into this for yourself.
 
Carlos2 said:
ejman, I want you to know that gerrym51 is guiding you down the right direction. I would suggest that you read my post above and it really should provide you some assistance when you read from the site that gerrym51 gave you.

As I stated earlier, you have to have bought a state approved partnership policy. These policies have serveral benefits, but the biggest one is the asset protection you will receive once your benefits from your ltci policy has been exhausted and you may need Medicaid. Again read my prior post for more explanation. A partnership policy should have been bought from already and not now.

I know that everyone focuses on going to nursing homes, but what is important is to review you policy for home care. Some policies don't have a waiting period for home health care. More people who want to stay in their home for care and many policies allow for this. The ltci policies will allow you to receive care at home and your spouse will not have to work at the job and then have to come home and care for a sick husband/wife too. This can be very, very exhausting for the healty spouse.

I would look into this for yourself.
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ejman, carlos is correct-the policies my wife have are for nursing home,home care ,or alternative care halfway housing. you should see what your policy provides. the key thing to me anyways is the 3-4 year policy gives you breathing space to consult the eldercare attorney
 
I guess I'll have to call CALPERS to see if what we bought back in 1998 is a state approved partnership policy. Does the partnership provision carry from one state to another? I.E. in my case the policy was bought in California but I've been a resident of Oregon for over 12 years now. Rereading Carlos post, I guess I don't have this benefit since it's currently a lifetime benefit that cannot be exhausted. I imagine I would have to switch to a limited term policy to have that provision come into play if the policy is eligible at all.

Gerrym51 you've indicated a need to consult an elder care attorney over a period of 3-4 years. What do you expect the elder care attorney to do for you that would take such a long period of time?
 
ejman said:
I guess I'll have to call CALPERS to see if what we bought back in 1998 is a state approved partnership policy. Does the partnership provision carry from one state to another? I.E. in my case the policy was bought in California but I've been a resident of Oregon for over 12 years now. Rereading Carlos post, I guess I don't have this benefit since it's currently a lifetime benefit that cannot be exhausted. I imagine I would have to switch to a limited term policy to have that provision come into play if the policy is eligible at all.

Gerrym51 you've indicated a need to consult an elder care attorney over a period of 3-4 years. What do you expect the elder care attorney to do for you that would take such a long period of time?
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no what i said was the ltc policy gives you time to consult an eldercare attorney if after a couple of months it looks like a long term confinement. an eldercare attorney repesents you and spouse and will give you the best guidance in your state. in massachusettes fortuneatly or not they guide families inmany things but mostly how to legally get the most from medicaid and keep the most.

but most importantly they are on the clients side-more unbiased advice-an ltc policy gives you and the attorney more leverage with medicaid. what i am saying my advice is only my advice-the attorney will give you much more qualified info than me or other posters

as for whether your state has an ltc partnership policy you would have to consult their website and search it. i would assume if they have this policy that any policy from anywhere that would meet their requirements would qualify.
 
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California Partnership Policy would say so in the policy...

ejman said:
I guess I'll have to call CALPERS to see if what we bought back in 1998 is a state approved partnership policy. Does the partnership provision carry from one state to another? I.E. in my case the policy was bought in California but I've been a resident of Oregon for over 12 years now. Rereading Carlos post, I guess I don't have this benefit since it's currently a lifetime benefit that cannot be exhausted. I imagine I would have to switch to a limited term policy to have that provision come into play if the policy is eligible at all.

Gerrym51 you've indicated a need to consult an elder care attorney over a period of 3-4 years. What do you expect the elder care attorney to do for you that would take such a long period of time?
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Calpers has a state approved partnership program. If you have one, it would state so on your policy as there are very specific requirements that these policies MUST have. As far as your benefits transferring to Oregon, it would depend. States do have reciprocity agreements. You would have to find out in Oregon if they have reciprocity with CA. If so your assets can be protected in Oregon. I hope this helps.
 
Back to the topic, my ltc policy 5 years with no automatic inflation rider went up about 40% this year. Every three years it offers a chance to buy more based upon inflation. (IT was originally a megacorp policy but I was able to transfer it when I retired). Or they offered to cut the daily payout about 30% or cut the benefit term from 5 to 2 years to keep the premiums level. Of course I bought this when offered the first time at the megacorp at age 49. It has a nice feature if you die without using it before 65 you get your premiums back.
 
mine and the wifes were purchased in 2003 from GE now genworth
 
meierlde said:
snip.... It has a nice feature if you die without using it before 65 you get your premiums back.
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That's quite a feature. If YOU die before 65 YOU get your premiums back. How is the money transfer accomplished? :D
 
meierlde said:
I guess I should have said your estate gets the money back.
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one feature of my wifes and my policies if they have both been paid for over 10 years and never used when one of us dies the other policy is considered paid in full
 
gerrym51 said:
one feature of my wifes and my policies if they have both been paid for over 10 years and never used when one of us dies the other policy is considered paid in full
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I have that feature too with Genworth. Since there is a gap in ages between my wife and I, it will probably be a deal.
 
Let me get this straight, whatever the increase in payment over the next few years after 2015 you could again get hit with another huge increase. Right? Or did I miss something!
 
Chuckanut said:
Let me get this straight, whatever the increase in payment over the next few years after 2015 you could again get hit with another huge increase. Right? Or did I miss something!
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Unfortunately you got it right. CALPERS could hit us again with any increase they want to after 2015. That's what makes this whole thing so sucky.
 
You have to understand...

I know no one likes rising premiums. I am certainly one of them. However, as you are getting upset remember this is insurance. Meaning, it may never be used or you're so glad you have it if you need it. It's an expensive gamble. However, the alternative is that you can be wiped out at anytime if you don't have it and you need it. I have seen it happen in my family and in some friends and some did not have it and some did. I want to be on the side where some did.

The rates have gone up because of the low interest rates and the low lapse rates. People keep these policies and insurance companies are not making very much money in the market. That has been the case.

Remember, health insurance rates go up each year and we don't blink at that because it's important. I know that I rarely used it and I pay money to have it. I mean I like never used it for yours (thank goodness) I am in my early 50's now and go in once a year. With your folks thinking I should just self insure for my health insurance. However, one knows if I had a stroke or heart attack or diabetes, I could be wiped out instantly with doctors bills and medical expenses for the hospital. To me, it's the same with LTC. I may need it or I may not. I hope I don't ever need it, but if I do then I am covered.
 
Carlos2 said:
I know no one likes rising premiums. I am certainly one of them. However, as you are getting upset remember this is insurance. Meaning, it may never be used or you're so glad you have it if you need it. It's an expensive gamble. However, the alternative is that you can be wiped out at anytime if you don't have it and you need it. I have seen it happen in my family and in some friends and some did not have it and some did. I want to be on the side where some did.
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I can see that, but at some point it becomes less like "insurance" to me when many households are forced to abandon it because of cost increases when it becomes most likely they will need it. Insurance is supposed to give peace of mind, and there's little "peace of mind" in thinking your premiums will become more than you can afford at a time when you need it most.
 
Heres how i see ltci,

trying to buy ltci unlimited policies is crazy.

when i was looking 10 years ago all surveys still said most stays less than 3 years. back then all kinds of policies were available although obviously more expensive. so we went with 4 yr policies.

our thoughts as i've expressed before were NOT to get forever coverage which was crazy expensive-but to give the non-insitutionalized spouse a cushion of TIME-to consult an eldercare attorney and set things up for medicaid to take over if it got to that. my state had ltci-medicaid partnerships even then.

i have not done much research since then because i have the policies. i hope we never have to use it-but if it happens and it looks like a long stay i will consult an eldercare attorney. Or mywife will. as i've said we also have the clauses for paid up premium for surviving spouse if never used.
 
Stuff Happens!

There are people who have to drop health insurance because it becomes too expensive, so that's not new. It's just that people go to the doctor more frequently than they do to a long term care facility or need home care.

I too have four year plans for me and my wife. I never considered a lifetime policy because it just did not make sense for us. However, if I had parents who suffered from dementia or Alzheimer's, I might have felt differently.

My biggest reason for having long term care was that I did not want to have to be a burden on my wife, kids, and other family members if I needed assistance. I hope to be able to be cared for at home and then have someone there to help me. My wife could still be able to work and not have to quit her job or have to come home from work and have another job.

We don't have a crystal ball to tell the future, but I like being prepared.
 
Any insurance is expensive, unless you need it.

A friend's parents were retired and living frugally in their life-long small home. A tornado came along and destroyed the home, fortunately they were visiting neighbors at the time.

It turns out they had cancelled their homeowners insurance because it was "too expensive".

I moved away shortly after, and lost track of them. But they certainly did not have the money to rebuild and I'm not sure they had enough money to rent.

We can't insure against every possibl problem; but need to look at both the probability of an event happening and what the consequences would be if it does happen. Look at the insurance cost, and choose wisely.
 
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