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Old 05-06-2013, 09:31 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by meierlde View Post
I guess I should have said your estate gets the money back.
one feature of my wifes and my policies if they have both been paid for over 10 years and never used when one of us dies the other policy is considered paid in full
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:18 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by gerrym51 View Post
one feature of my wifes and my policies if they have both been paid for over 10 years and never used when one of us dies the other policy is considered paid in full
I have that feature too with Genworth. Since there is a gap in ages between my wife and I, it will probably be a deal.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:05 AM   #143
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Let me get this straight, whatever the increase in payment over the next few years after 2015 you could again get hit with another huge increase. Right? Or did I miss something!
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:18 AM   #144
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Let me get this straight, whatever the increase in payment over the next few years after 2015 you could again get hit with another huge increase. Right? Or did I miss something!
Unfortunately you got it right. CALPERS could hit us again with any increase they want to after 2015. That's what makes this whole thing so sucky.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:52 AM   #145
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Let me get this straight, whatever the increase in payment over the next few years after 2015 you could again get hit with another huge increase. Right? Or did I miss something!
Correct. This is why I'm currently not interested in LTCI.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:26 AM   #146
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You have to understand...

I know no one likes rising premiums. I am certainly one of them. However, as you are getting upset remember this is insurance. Meaning, it may never be used or you're so glad you have it if you need it. It's an expensive gamble. However, the alternative is that you can be wiped out at anytime if you don't have it and you need it. I have seen it happen in my family and in some friends and some did not have it and some did. I want to be on the side where some did.

The rates have gone up because of the low interest rates and the low lapse rates. People keep these policies and insurance companies are not making very much money in the market. That has been the case.

Remember, health insurance rates go up each year and we don't blink at that because it's important. I know that I rarely used it and I pay money to have it. I mean I like never used it for yours (thank goodness) I am in my early 50's now and go in once a year. With your folks thinking I should just self insure for my health insurance. However, one knows if I had a stroke or heart attack or diabetes, I could be wiped out instantly with doctors bills and medical expenses for the hospital. To me, it's the same with LTC. I may need it or I may not. I hope I don't ever need it, but if I do then I am covered.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:03 AM   #147
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I know no one likes rising premiums. I am certainly one of them. However, as you are getting upset remember this is insurance. Meaning, it may never be used or you're so glad you have it if you need it. It's an expensive gamble. However, the alternative is that you can be wiped out at anytime if you don't have it and you need it. I have seen it happen in my family and in some friends and some did not have it and some did. I want to be on the side where some did.
I can see that, but at some point it becomes less like "insurance" to me when many households are forced to abandon it because of cost increases when it becomes most likely they will need it. Insurance is supposed to give peace of mind, and there's little "peace of mind" in thinking your premiums will become more than you can afford at a time when you need it most.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #148
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Heres how i see ltci,

trying to buy ltci unlimited policies is crazy.

when i was looking 10 years ago all surveys still said most stays less than 3 years. back then all kinds of policies were available although obviously more expensive. so we went with 4 yr policies.

our thoughts as i've expressed before were NOT to get forever coverage which was crazy expensive-but to give the non-insitutionalized spouse a cushion of TIME-to consult an eldercare attorney and set things up for medicaid to take over if it got to that. my state had ltci-medicaid partnerships even then.

i have not done much research since then because i have the policies. i hope we never have to use it-but if it happens and it looks like a long stay i will consult an eldercare attorney. Or mywife will. as i've said we also have the clauses for paid up premium for surviving spouse if never used.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:30 PM   #149
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Stuff Happens!

There are people who have to drop health insurance because it becomes too expensive, so that's not new. It's just that people go to the doctor more frequently than they do to a long term care facility or need home care.

I too have four year plans for me and my wife. I never considered a lifetime policy because it just did not make sense for us. However, if I had parents who suffered from dementia or Alzheimer's, I might have felt differently.

My biggest reason for having long term care was that I did not want to have to be a burden on my wife, kids, and other family members if I needed assistance. I hope to be able to be cared for at home and then have someone there to help me. My wife could still be able to work and not have to quit her job or have to come home from work and have another job.

We don't have a crystal ball to tell the future, but I like being prepared.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:37 PM   #150
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Any insurance is expensive, unless you need it.

A friend's parents were retired and living frugally in their life-long small home. A tornado came along and destroyed the home, fortunately they were visiting neighbors at the time.

It turns out they had cancelled their homeowners insurance because it was "too expensive".

I moved away shortly after, and lost track of them. But they certainly did not have the money to rebuild and I'm not sure they had enough money to rent.

We can't insure against every possibl problem; but need to look at both the probability of an event happening and what the consequences would be if it does happen. Look at the insurance cost, and choose wisely.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:28 AM   #151
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Any insurance is expensive, unless you need it.

A friend's parents were retired and living frugally in their life-long small home. A tornado came along and destroyed the home, fortunately they were visiting neighbors at the time.

It turns out they had cancelled their homeowners insurance because it was "too expensive".

I moved away shortly after, and lost track of them. But they certainly did not have the money to rebuild and I'm not sure they had enough money to rent.

We can't insure against every possibl problem; but need to look at both the probability of an event happening and what the consequences would be if it does happen. Look at the insurance cost, and choose wisely.
troweprice gave me a free morningstar premium enrollment-i had never been there-and i ran across this. might be pertinent


Long-Term Care: Denial Is Not One of the Choices
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #152
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My wife proposed another way to think about the new options offered by CalPERS. She pointed out that we have inflation adjusted pensions with the Univ. of CA. which is money that could be used toward the daily long term care costs. The CalPERS benefit could then be used to just make up the difference. For me, Option 5 provides for a lump sum benefit of say $800k (10 yrs at $222/day current $). The benefit isn't limited to 10 yrs of payouts. It is limited to the $800k.

If I was in a long term care facility at $6000/month then I would only need to use $6660 - $5000 (pension) = $1660/month of the CalPERS benefit which would would last 40 yrs (not just 10 yrs). Since the average stay in a facility is 3-6 yrs, this option would give more than enough coverage even considering actual local costs for long term care and future inflation factors.

Does this sound right?
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:40 AM   #153
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I'm leaning to the 10 year option as well.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:36 AM   #154
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My wife proposed another way to think about the new options offered by CalPERS. She pointed out that we have inflation adjusted pensions with the Univ. of CA. which is money that could be used toward the daily long term care costs. The CalPERS benefit could then be used to just make up the difference. For me, Option 5 provides for a lump sum benefit of say $800k (10 yrs at $222/day current $). The benefit isn't limited to 10 yrs of payouts. It is limited to the $800k.

If I was in a long term care facility at $6000/month then I would only need to use $6660 - $5000 (pension) = $1660/month of the CalPERS benefit which would would last 40 yrs (not just 10 yrs). Since the average stay in a facility is 3-6 yrs, this option would give more than enough coverage even considering actual local costs for long term care and future inflation factors.

Does this sound right?
Sounds like a reasonable plan.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:20 PM   #155
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Good, bad or indifferent I decided to go with the 10 year non inflation adjusted option. What I liked about this option is that in 3 years I can increase coverage ( for more premium of course) if the inflation winds at that time are blowing in that direction. If instead we are doing a Japan like dance no need for it.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:41 PM   #156
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What I liked about this option is that in 3 years I can increase coverage ( for more premium of course) if the inflation winds at that time are blowing in that direction.
Do look carefully at those rate increases--they can be astounding. I was tempted to do as you did, but it wasn't made clear to me at first that the ongoing "adjustments" are really the purchase of brand-new LTC coverage on the now-older person. Older people pay much higher premiums, especially since the insurance company has guaranteed to sell it to you and they have to price-in the fact that you'll have ongoing better knowledge of your health issues. The folks more likely to need LTCi (early-stage Alzheimer's, general frailty, etc) will definitely keep buying the increases, so that adverse selection is already baked into the price. As I got older the additional coverage needed to keep pace with inflation went out of sight.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:55 PM   #157
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Do look carefully at those rate increases--they can be astounding. I was tempted to do as you did, but it wasn't made clear to me at first that the ongoing "adjustments" are really the purchase of brand-new LTC coverage on the now-older person. Older people pay much higher premiums, especially since the insurance company has guaranteed to sell it to you and they have to price-in the fact that you'll have ongoing better knowledge of your health issues. The folks more likely to need LTCi (early-stage Alzheimer's, general frailty, etc) will definitely keep buying the increases, so that adverse selection is already baked into the price. As I got older the additional coverage needed to keep pace with inflation went out of sight.
Fair enough. If the increases just get too high I'll just do what I've been tempted to do all along with this flawed product- drop it. Or alternatively retain the original coverage until the amount of it becomes irrelevant due to inflation.
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