Inspiration

I've actually wondered - and I don't want to offend anyone - if it would help if I tried to merge in with a little lower socioeconomic class.  But that seems kind of contrived...I don't know - it's a tough issue.  It's just hard cuzz everyone talks about relatively expensive cars, vacations and toys almost endlessly.
Click to expand...
My job put me with educated professionals. There were a few I liked a lot, but a great many were self-serving, self-important, self-absorbed, name-dropping, keep-up-with-the-Jones, suck-ups, and climbers with about one inch of depth. I grew up around farmers and blue-collar workers and I'd take them any day. The people who tried to impress everyone with all their stuff didn't bother me in the least. I was confident that my approach was smarter and just viewed them as idiots. Life is much simpler for INTJs.
 
I agree with Bob_Smith that "Life is much simpler for INTJs". However, I am not quite so hard on my former
"top of the economic food chain" associates. I knew
I couldn't "keep up" when I semiretired in 1993, so we moved back to the rural area where we grew up
and where both sets of parents still lived. I have questioned this decision, although the same problem
(no longer fitting together enonomically) ended my first marriage.
Anyway, unlike Bob_Smith, I miss my former friends
and status. I would say it was worth both breaks to
enable me to ER. My motivation has never wavered.
There have been a lot of surprises along the way though.

John Galt
 
I agree with Bob_Smith that "Life is much simpler for INTJs".  However, I am not quite so hard on my former
"top of the economic food chain" associates.  I knew
I couldn't "keep up" when I semiretired in 1993, so we moved back to the rural area where we grew up
and where both sets of parents still lived.  I have  questioned this decision, although the same problem
(no longer fitting together enonomically) ended my first marriage.
Anyway, unlike Bob_Smith, I miss my former friends
and status.  I would say it was worth both breaks to
enable me to ER.  My motivation has never wavered.
There have been a lot of surprises along the way though.

John Galt
Click to expand...

Well, there always pros and cons to any decision. That's what's tough about life. Major decisions often mean irreversible and profound change! Try to explain that to a kid...

I guess I'm at the point where I just "feel in my bones" I want out of the rat race. I feel that money can bring a lot of a certain kind of fun and entertainment that is exhilirating and it gives the possibility for education and learning, but I think those come at too high of a price. But I haven't actually done all this, so any input you have is much appreciated...
 
I've actually wondered - and I don't want to offend anyone - if it would help if I tried to merge in with a little lower socioeconomic class.  But that seems kind of contrived...I don't know - it's a tough issue.  It's just hard cuzz everyone talks about relatively expensive cars, vacations and toys almost endlessly.  I've never heard anyone talk about camping for example...
Click to expand...

Whisper,

My guess is that you may be quite a bit younger than a lot of the 50 plus folks on this forum. And that could be the problem.

Most of us here have spent our 30 years in the work force, saved our money, budgeted and now plan on enjoying retirement while we're still able and alive. :)

Are we crazy for spending our money on things we enjoy? No, because we budget for it. My wife and I plan to spend our nest egg throughout our lives. Travelling is one of our passions. The folks on this forum are very conservative financially and spend money on things that are important to them. And if I had another $10 Million, I'd figure out a way to spend that also with no problem. A winter home in Florida would be nice 8)

Do I camp out? - Sure I do and enjoy a lot of 'some' of it. Last month (July) I took fishing trip over to Lake Michigan and Camped out, Had wonderful weather, great friends, food. We enjoyed watching the fireflies also, as well as good whiskey around the campfire. I love camping. - But when I go to Kodiak Island next month, I'm also glad I'm in a nice warm lodge. I've camped out on Kodiak in October and after a day on the river in the rain, coming back to wet tent is not something I enjoy.

You are still in the accumulation phase and seem to really want out of work. Maybe you should look at a career change and do something you really want to do.
 
I've actually wondered - and I don't want to offend anyone - if it would help if I tried to merge in with a little lower socioeconomic class. But that seems kind of contrived...I don't know - it's a tough issue. It's just hard cuzz everyone talks about relatively expensive cars, vacations and toys almost endlessly. I've never heard anyone talk about camping for example...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what "merge in with a little lower socioeconomic class" means to you, but to me it sounds like "live on less than you make" and that is what this someday-RE is doing. Heck, you have to.

I'm starting to get some camping gear cheap now that it's the end of the season. Still another month or so left of decent camping weather out here in Seattle, if you don't mind more chances at rain. The dome tent I got is a PITA to set up.
 
I are the lower socio-economic class. One thing though - if you manage to search out and find some really cheap, out of the way, places - that have 'da funk' or 'mystic pizzaz' - you meet some interesting characters - you pretend not to know from movies/tv or one stretch is nicknamed 'politicians row' and the other way they have one area that every four/five years some stupid movie crew is screwing up local traffic.

You would be surprised who likes cheap out of the way housing.

Being a dam yankee - I gave up trying to act local 20 yrs ago. Still one of those peculiar folks - who don't talk rite.
 
Not sure if this is what you're talking about, but I live in the bowels of the metropolis and just love it. I'm surrounded by cheap but fantastic ethnic food. I'm in heaven...
 
Whisper,

My guess is that you may be quite a bit younger than a lot of the 50 plus folks on this forum. And that could be the problem.

Most of us here have spent our 30 years in the work force, saved our money, budgeted and now plan on enjoying retirement while we're still able and alive. :)

Are we crazy for spending our money on things we enjoy? No, because we budget for it. My wife and I plan to spend our nest egg throughout our lives. Travelling is one of our passions. The folks on this forum are very conservative financially and spend money on things that are important to them. And if I had another $10 Million, I'd figure out a way to spend that also with no problem. A winter home in Florida would be nice 8)

Do I camp out? - Sure I do and enjoy a lot of 'some' of it. Last month (July) I took fishing trip over to Lake Michigan and Camped out, Had wonderful weather, great friends, food. We enjoyed watching the fireflies also, as well as good whiskey around the campfire. I love camping. - But when I go to Kodiak Island next month, I'm also glad I'm in a nice warm lodge. I've camped out on Kodiak in October and after a day on the river in the rain, coming back to wet tent is not something I enjoy.

You are still in the accumulation phase and seem to really want out of work. Maybe you should look at a career change and do something you really want to do.
Click to expand...

Mid 40's myself. And, yes, I'm in the accumulation phase.

As far as wanting out of work, it will probably surprise you to find that I really enjoy my work. I feel very fortunate to have a job that I look forward to going to every morning. But I have several huge motivators:

1. I work in an industry with a lot of turnover, downsizing, etc. At a minimum I want to know I could retire and survive in the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure...
2. I'm a ofttimes single parent. I'd like to be able to spend more time with my kid and be there when he comes home from school.
3. As much as I enjoy my profession, I have so much more that I'd like to do, particularly in the area of volunteering.
4. I have many and varied interests and I feel that a 40+ hour a week job takes a disproportionate amount of time out of one's life.

Hope that makes sense...
 
I'm not sure what "merge in with a little lower socioeconomic class" means to you, but to me it sounds like "live on less than you make" and that is what this someday-RE is doing. Heck, you have to.
Click to expand...

Well, that wasn't too PC, but what I meant was that I've noticed that hanging around my more middle class friends is a sure way to burn cash: expensive lunches, amusement parks for the kids, expensive entertainment, endless talk about gadgets, electronics and nice cars. It's torture because a lot of it I love - particularly CD's, the lunches, and the gadgets.

But when I hang around someone who is maybe a student or isn't really yet up in the middle class, etc. - generally they're saying, "Oh, sorry, I can only go to a matinee" or "Sorry, it's gotta be fast food this week.", etc.

It just eliminates a lot of unnecessary tension...
 
Re. "eliminates a lot of unnecessary tension", you're
right. Couldn't agree more. Still miss my "high-roller"
lifestyle a bit though. Now, here is a rhetorical question to ponder. How far would I travel back into my former
lifestyle if I had the economic means to do so?
And, if I thought I could stand it financially, would I go all the way back (think country clubs and Cadillacs, etc.)? Maybe.......................

John Galt
 
History

American SST, Skylab, Viking, Space Shuttle.

When I was layed off - Space Shuttle was old, out of date and no new R&D of note hence I was increasingly redundant. The other guys had the Space Station contract and it was proceeding slowly (ie not hiring what I had).

Among the many other emotions - conscious and -un- , I couldn't see moving to get a job - if all they could offer was money - no history, no romance. Working for only money is just stupid. (told ya - INTJ, left handed, mildly insane).

Heh, heh, heh - how bout them dryer sheets!!!
 
History

American SST, Skylab, Viking, Space Shuttle.

When I was layed off - Space Shuttle was old, out of date and no new R&D of note hence I was increasingly redundant. The other guys had the Space Station contract and it was proceeding slowly (ie not hiring what I had).

Among the many other emotions - conscious and -un- , I couldn't see moving to get a job - if all they could offer was money - no history, no romance. Working for only money is just stupid. (told ya - INTJ, left handed, mildly insane).

Heh, heh, heh - how bout them dryer sheets!!!
Click to expand...

Glad to see someone else out there with a few neuroses and proud of it...
 
At a minimum I want to know I could retire and survive in the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure...
Click to expand...

Note also that your fellow passengers may be used as temporary floatation devices...

Now you know why the pilots on the company jet I used to ride to work didnt like it when I gave the pre-flight instructions... ;)
 
Hello Whisper! Good question.

I miss it all. But, I can not keep up the "pace" at my
age. It's sad in a way, but I accept that nature will
have its way with us regardless. So, I miss my
"high consumption" lifestyle, but realize I can no
longer support it. Hope that makes sense. As I posted
earlier today, I am quite sure I would continue on
if I had the money and the energy. Alas, I have neither.

John Galt
 
Hello Whisper!  Good question.

I miss it all.  But, I can not keep up the "pace" at my
age.  It's sad in a way, but I accept that nature will
have its way with us regardless.  So, I miss my
"high consumption"  lifestyle, but realize I can no
longer support it.  Hope that makes sense.  As I posted
earlier today, I am quite sure I would continue on
if I had the money and the energy.  Alas, I have neither.

John Galt
Click to expand...

You sound a little "wistful" to say the least. Here's yet another question: could it possibly be more than simply the lifestyle that you miss? In other words, don't you think that it could have been simply some key, core things that you actually miss that actually have little to do with status, income, possessions and the like?
 
: Inspiration

I am a little "wistful" and I think it is very true that I lost a lot more than the high profile/high consumption
lifestyle which I lived for quite a long time. I didn't
see most of this except with hindsight (as with so much
of life). Anyway, it's a good thing I knew I must ER.
Spending your time regretting past decisions is
not useful.

John Galt
 
Whisper 9999 started this thread by asking what motivated us through the long years of preparation for early retirement – years of saving, years of deferred gratification, years of seeing peers with more stuff and lifestyle.

I think its a great question, and it has taken me several days of pondering to figure out my answer, so its a bit late.

My answer is slightly different than others, in that I did not ‘save my way’ to ER, but rather chose to ‘earn my way’ to ER. Terhorsts gave me the vision and roadmap, but Joe Dominguez' YMOYL-style privation was never our path. We bought what we needed and just sought to earn more, through taking more risk, working harder and smarter, starting companies, investing carefully in risky asset classes.

But the motivation was always around ‘Freedom’. I held vivid images for 15 years of escaping prison, escaping the humiliation of bosses and employers, and once I was the boss in my own firms, vivid images of ‘graduation’ to a new level where I would have all the time in the world to be with my kids, to not take business trips, to take exercise classes, to hang out with friends or have lunch with my wife. I though a lot about the old style indentured servitude by which some of our ancestors came to this country and worked for years to pay off their passage debt and were finally free, though in that case just free to work for themselves without a debt, not Financially Independent free.

Once I had a firm image of freedom from the indignities of having to make a monthly sales quota or a quarterly revenue projection or leave my family on a Sunday afternoon to make it to Dallas for a Monday morning meeting, then spending just what we needed was pretty easy to manage. (Be warned, however, that ‘the basics’ for us may be different than the norm as we spend about 4x the average for this board on our annual expenses.)

It took 15 years but we made it.

We haven't dropped out lifestyle spending much, though we do spend less than our peers through savvy tricks to keep a similar or frankly better lifestyle. (we also have more time to do more fun things together that don't necessarily cost much). However, in the interests of full disclosure, we do rely on a bit of part-time work income to close the gap between a 4% SWR and our annual spending, and afford things like our property taxes (while the kids are in school - 8 more years), our 37 ft bluewater cruising sailboat and this summer's 3 weeks in France (with a week renting a self-hire barge and putting through Burgundy) It's a tradeoff that works for us.

ESRBob
 
Whisper 9999 started this thread by asking what motivated us through the long years of preparation for early retirement – years  of saving, years of deferred gratification, years of seeing  peers with more stuff and lifestyle.

I think its a great question, and it has taken me several days of pondering to figure out my answer, so its a bit late.

My answer is slightly different than others, in that I did not ‘save my way’ to ER, but rather chose to ‘earn my way’ to ER.  Terhorsts gave me the vision and roadmap, but Joe Dominguez' YMOYL-style privation was never our path.  We bought what we needed and just sought to earn more, through taking more risk, working harder and smarter, starting companies, investing carefully in risky asset classes.

But the motivation was always around ‘Freedom’.  I held vivid images for 15 years of escaping prison, escaping the humiliation of bosses and employers, and once I was the boss in my own firms, vivid images of ‘graduation’ to a new level where I would have all the time in the world to be with my kids, to not take business trips, to take exercise classes, to hang out with friends or have lunch with my wife.  I though a lot about the old style  indentured servitude by which some of our ancestors came to this country and worked for years to pay off their passage debt and were finally free, though in that case just free to work for themselves without a debt, not Financially Independent free.

Once I had a firm image of freedom from the indignities of having to make a monthly sales quota or a quarterly revenue projection or leave my family on a Sunday afternoon to make it to Dallas for a Monday morning meeting, then spending just what we needed was pretty easy to manage.  (Be warned, however, that ‘the basics’ for us may be different than the norm as we spend about 4x the average for this board on our annual expenses.)

It took 15 years but we made it.  

We haven't dropped out lifestyle spending much, though we do spend less than our peers through savvy tricks to keep a similar or frankly better lifestyle.  (we also have more time to do more fun things together that don't necessarily cost much).  However, in the interests of full disclosure, we do rely on a bit of part-time work income to close the gap between a 4% SWR and our annual spending, and afford things like our property taxes (while the kids are in school - 8 more years), our 37 ft bluewater cruising sailboat and this summer's 3 weeks in France (with a week renting a self-hire barge and putting through Burgundy)  It's a tradeoff that works for us.

ESRBob
Click to expand...

Thx for the story. Another great example.

What you wrote here really hit me:

"I though a lot about the old style indentured servitude by which some of our ancestors came to this country and worked for years to pay off their passage debt and were finally free."

It's strange that most Americans don't see that. Essentially you're an "indentured servant" quite often either working for low wages or long hours to the company. That's not always true, but very often. It's just strange that most people don't think of the fact that they need to break out of this servitude. Why stay indentured all your life??

'Nuther question: what is "&#8216" and "#8217". I get the gyst of it from context, but it sounds like some formal "doctrine" that I"m missing...
 
Re: : Inspiration

I am a little "wistful" and I think it is very true that I lost a lot more than the high profile/high consumption
lifestyle which I lived for quite a long time.  I didn't
see most of this except with hindsight (as with so much
of life).  Anyway, it's a good thing I knew I must ER.
Spending your time regretting past decisions is
not useful.

John Galt
Click to expand...

Hope you find a way out of some of your health issues. Sounds like that's a major concern based on some of your posts.
 
Well, thanks Whisper. The health issues are a problem for sure. Not sure how this will all shake out, although
we all know the eventual outcome. Anyway, the irony
of retiring early partly due to worries about my health, and
then having a bunch of stuff dumped on me by the fates
is interesting. Sort of a self fulfilling prophesy?

John Galt
 
I've been having health issues lately, too, and I'm only 51. AND I haven't retired yet!

My father semi-retired at 52 and was completely out by 55. He did not really like his work much. A Depression baby, he saved and saved and was always very frugal. He was diagnosed with cancer at 67, and died at 69. I've always thought, WHAT if he had retired at 65? To have only 2 years? I've always been grateful that his life included the fuller, richer, easier years that were the payoff for so much hard work.

John, I join Whisper in hoping for the best possible outcome. I'm glad you're retired, too; I don't think it's a self-fulfiling prophesy at all. Maybe if you hated retirement, it could influence your health adversely. But I hope you have many good retired years in you yet!

Anne
 
Thanks Anne! That is by far the nicest thing anyone has
said to me today. Much appreciated. I'm not complaining as my life has been pretty amazing so far.
I recall once I was applying for a part time job.
This was about
10 years go. They said to me "Wow, you've had quite a life!" I said, "Yep, and it's not over yet!"

John Galt
 
You are very welcome. BTW, your advice (and everyone else's) will be sought on Investment Strategies.

Take good care of yourself!

Anne
 
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