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Old 10-11-2011, 09:08 AM   #41
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Your examples both got massive payouts when they were fired ($42 million and $29 million). I'd love to have that be the reward for complete failure at my job.

The HP board managed to hire and fire another guy already, and have brought in Meg Whitman. She may be successful, but her background doesn't include anything like running HP, so I'm a little sceptical of the choice.

Ultimately, there isn't a practical way for the shareholders to reclaim their company from a terrible BoD. In the case of HP, it sounds like the BoD has appointed some new people and are having some of the old folks retire, but if they weren't doing that, the BoD would likely withstand any shareholder outrage just fine. The bulk of shares are held by institutions that don't as a rule mess with the BoD.

There are tons of bad CEOs, but underpaid CEOs are pretty rare.

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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Never say never. CEOs are fired all the time. Here are two high tech examples from 2 seconds of googling.

I agree there are problems with the BOD/CEO system, but hyperbole does not serve the discussion.

-ERD50
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:12 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by justplainbll View Post
Given the trend towards a nanny state, the risks of becoming a dentist are becoming more ominous.
He already made his bones - he's retired.

The practice was bought by his DD (Dear Daughter, not Doctor of Dentistry , who is, along with her dad, a DDS, FACS).
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
Your examples both got massive payouts when they were fired ($42 million and $29 million). I'd love to have that be the reward for complete failure at my job.

The HP board managed to hire and fire another guy already, and have brought in Meg Whitman. She may be successful, but her background doesn't include anything like running HP, so I'm a little sceptical of the choice.

Ultimately, there isn't a practical way for the shareholders to reclaim their company from a terrible BoD.
In the case of HP, it sounds like the BoD has appointed some new people and are having some of the old folks retire, but if they weren't doing that, the BoD would likely withstand any shareholder outrage just fine. The bulk of shares are held by institutions that don't as a rule mess with the BoD.

There are tons of bad CEOs, but underpaid CEOs are pretty rare.
Even the legal way is pretty hard. Shareholders cannot nominate board members or approve executive compensation. The CEO nominates the board. The conflict of interest in US corporate governance is well documented, Warren Buffet has included it in his annual letter to shareholders.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:40 AM   #44
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The practice was bought by his DD (Dear Daughter, not Doctor of Dentistry , who is, along with her dad, a DDS, FACS).
Our kid's dentist went out on his own from the group practice. I used to wonder why he wanted to support his own office of 18 hygienists and clerical staff.

A few years later he announced that his twin daughters had joined his practice. The timing of his exit from the group practice was probably their start of dental schooling. Ah, I understand now...
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I found this report on top 1% thresholds interesting...
Old 10-12-2011, 03:17 PM   #45
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I found this report on top 1% thresholds interesting...

Curious of others views. Money shot is:

"Until recently, most studies just broke out the top 1% as a group. Data on net worth distributions within the top 1% indicate that one enters the top 0.5% with about $1.8M, the top 0.25% with $3.1M, the top 0.10% with $5.5M and the top 0.01% with $24.4M. Wealth distribution is highly skewed towards the top 0.01%, increasing the overall average for this group."

Personally I was quite surprised that the research suggests that the top 0.01% skewed the entry into top 1% so much. Generally I've see studies that suggust to be in the top 1% meant approximately $5M.

EDIT: Sorry appears this has already been discussed! http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1119359


Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

[mod edit--threads merged]
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:23 PM   #46
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Curious of others views. Money shot is:

"Until recently, most studies just broke out the top 1% as a group. Data on net worth distributions within the top 1% indicate that one enters the top 0.5% with about $1.8M, the top 0.25% with $3.1M, the top 0.10% with $5.5M and the top 0.01% with $24.4M. Wealth distribution is highly skewed towards the top 0.01%, increasing the overall average for this group."

Personally I was quite surprised that the research suggests that the top 0.01% skewed the entry into top 1% so much. Generally I've see studies that suggest to be in the top 1% meant approximately $5M.


Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%
That the problem with statistics. They can really mislead if they aren't used in context of how they were measured.

People seem to think if only the government taxed a few rich people then all of our problems would be solved. The truth is there are so few (really rich) people that it just wouldn't make that much difference. What the government really needs to do is come clean with America and tell em' that either we need to really jack up middle class taxes or ratchet back all those middle class benefits. The present path we are on just leads to disaster.

Where is Ross Perot when we need him.
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:27 PM   #47
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That the problem with statistics. They can really mislead if they aren't used in context of how they were measured.

People seem to think if only the government taxed a few rich people then all of our problems would be solved. The truth is there are so few (really rich) people that it just wouldn't make that much difference. What the government really needs to do is come clean with America and tell em' that either we need to really jack up middle class taxes or ratchet back all those middle class benefits. The present path we are on just leads to disaster.

Where is Ross Perot when we need him.
It also says that curing Social Security cannot be done by means testing. The pool of "rich" are a blip on the screen.

Also if this research is correct it puts into perspective how little savings there are across 99% of Americans. Very frightening actually...
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:05 PM   #48
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Yes, and he's a little off when he says

"Membership in this elite group is likely to come from being involved in some aspect of the financial services or banking industry, real estate development involved with those industries, or government contracting. ... Those in the top 0.5% have incomes over $500k if working and a net worth over $1.8M if retired."

because he's apparently unaware of people who have lived below their means, started investing early, and invested wisely (and luckily).
I don't know that he's not aware of the group of people you describe, but rather that his experiences are that they are not the predominant type of wealthy folks.

The other thing that strikes me is that people making $500k/yr typically wind up with $1.8M net worth when retired - as that's what puts both groups in the top 0.5% - if I interpret those numbers correctly as to their implication.
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