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international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 02:09 PM   #1
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international funds

I'm setting up a IRA with Vanguard using the coffeehouse* portfolio more or less. I am thinking of going 30-35% international. Any suggestions on funds to pick from V. ? Right now I'm considering 50-50 between international growth and international value keeping it like the coffeehouse method for domestic stocks. Pros, cons, suggestions? This will be* untouched for ten years (hopefully) except for rebalance..........Shredder
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 05:04 PM   #2
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Re: international funds

Is there some reason you wouldn't simply index? Cheap, proven, easy to do at VG.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 05:43 PM   #3
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Re: international funds

VG has an international growth index and value index. At least I think they're indexes.

Both have good long term records and good country distribution. You could do lots worse than buying 50/50 and balancing every 1-2 years. A little higher ER than buying pacific and europe indexes separately but the growth/value funds significantly outperform those.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 07:14 PM   #4
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Re: international funds

Vanguard's Int'l Growth and Int'l Value are not index funds, they're actively managed. Low ER's, but higher turnover [and trading costs].

Personally, I use International Index funds and tilt towards small and value in my US equities. Value is value the world around.

- Alec
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 09:33 PM   #5
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Re: international funds

Dodge and Cox International is a FANTASTIC fund, and expenses are very low (almost as low as Vanguard.)

I have Fidelity Diversified Int'l for my growth fund now, expenses are a tad high but it's got a great record, plus it's in my 401k.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 09:47 PM   #6
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Re: international funds

I 2nd the Dodge and Cox---large cap value tilted

Quote:
Vanguard's Int'l Growth and Int'l Value are not index funds, they're actively managed. Low ER's, but higher turnover [and trading costs].
I don't think it is a terrible idea to look at Intl' Value. Tracks the international value index which I think is what Notth (or TH) meant. Value outperforms over the long run.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 09:52 PM   #7
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Re: international funds

I don't know about that - BUT the Dodge and Cox funds - top ten holdings are one place I check frequently for dividend stock ideas.

Dodge and Cox has been around since the 1930's - and are an old respected 'value house' with a good track record. If that carries over into international - well one could easily do much worse.

I think that be a left handed compliment.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 09:55 PM   #8
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Re: international funds

An alternative is Oakmark International (OAKIX.) Expenses are a bit higher, but many fund houses have it as NTF.

Oakmark actually is more "value" now - lower PE and a higher yield.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-28-2005, 09:55 PM   #9
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Re: international funds

Dodge and Cox is really one of the few actives I respect. *Same value approach applies to the International Fund---DODFX.

As often as we recommend 4 Pillars I do believe Bernstein mentions the Vanguard Intl Value as a decent idea despite it being actively managed for the reason stated above.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-29-2005, 03:21 AM   #10
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Re: international funds

Greetings Shredder. If you're considering instituting a variation on the Coffeehouse Port, which recommends a 10% allocation in int'l, there may be another option. Vanguard also has an index fund for emerging markets - VEIEX, couple that with VTRIX, and you'd be using the value and small-cap (relatively so) premium that has been prevalent in historical returns.

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Re: international funds
Old 06-29-2005, 09:38 AM   #11
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Re: international funds

I agree that you need emerging market exposure and VEIEX is a decent way to do that.
Fidelity has an excellent fund for foreign small cap. FISMX. (great record) The fidelity index fund is good and importantly it has a 10 BP expense ratio.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-29-2005, 10:46 AM   #12
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Re: international funds

I believe the Fidelity small cap intl is now closed.* Investors have been throwing some serious cash into small cap intl funds.

Shredder if you can wait a bit and like the idea of ETFs iShares is coming out with a Value and Growth Intl ETF. Expenses should be as low or lower than Vanguard's Intl Value.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-29-2005, 01:20 PM   #13
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Re: international funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat
I believe the Fidelity small cap intl is now closed.* Investors have been throwing some serious cash into small cap intl funds.
Yep it is closed. That one got by me.* Not to worry, another great fund is the Canada Fund* FICDX
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Re: international funds
Old 06-29-2005, 01:35 PM   #14
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Re: international funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by ats5g
Vanguard's Int'l Growth and Int'l Value are not index funds, they're actively managed. Low ER's, but higher turnover [and trading costs].

Personally, I use International Index funds and tilt towards small and value in my US equities. Value is value the world around.

- Alec
You're correct...I thought they tracked a value and growth index but perhaps they dont.

I went with value myself just yesterday, exchanging my europe and pacific for the intl value fund. The growth fund has a better 10 year record, but most of the outperformance was 8-10 years ago when the stock markets were thumping along without underpinnings. More recent (and rational) performance gives intl value a signficant edge over intl growth and total intl. I think for longer term holdings, intl value has the same benefits as domestic value.
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Re: international funds
Old 06-30-2005, 02:51 AM   #15
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Re: international funds

I also picked VTRIX (Vang. for value) for my foreign developed part - BUT my first choice was dodge and cox DODFX - they would however not let evil non-resident aliens like me own their fund - even through a US broker... sniffle.... Ironic; foreign fund not allowed to be owned by foreigners.... :
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