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Invest and Stop Working
Old 07-19-2008, 04:32 PM   #1
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Invest and Stop Working

Whats so hard about ER?


Invest and Stop Working - Seeking Alpha
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:45 PM   #2
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I would not stop working with a portfolio value of $400K at 34 years of age. The dividends from stocks may not be enough to support living expenses even if medical care is free.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:42 AM   #3
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"Invest and Stop Working"

... and earn your living selling books about how you stopped working!
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:00 AM   #4
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1993 - I was canned which is a form of stop working - did not feel a screaming motivation to write books let alone read them - did not carry health insurance - had no idea of the risks I was taking - oh and slipped in a little temp work along the way.

Cheap bastardhood, a different period of history, and a buck was a buck back in 93( naner naner couldn't resist).

heh heh heh - er ah past performnace is is - well you know.
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:38 AM   #5
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Derek Foster is Canadian and some of his theories apply best here (no health insurance requirement). Here is a link to a Canadian site with a very long thread on his book: Financial Webring Forum :: View topic - Stop Working: Here's How You Can!
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:06 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
Derek Foster is Canadian and some of his theories apply best here (no health insurance requirement). Here is a link to a Canadian site with a very long thread on his book: Financial Webring Forum :: View topic - Stop Working: Here's How You Can!
Great link! I read page 1, and page 19 of 19. Thee folks are mostly not too enamored of Derek or his honesty.

It is easy to forget that even a moderate selling book can be a big help to low income or any retired person living on moderate capital. If you don't market the dream, you aren't going to find many buyers, so not so much help for the 'ol budget.!

Another thing that doesn't seem to be real popular about Derek is his taking advantage of some Canadian Child Support System.

Ha
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:52 PM   #7
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Derek Foster is Canadian and some of his theories apply best here (no health insurance requirement). Here is a link to a Canadian site with a very long thread on his book: Financial Webring Forum :: View topic - Stop Working: Here's How You Can!
Just read through the discussion on the link - thanks.

Truth is he has an an income from multiple sources - his dividend paying portfolio, the Canadian government income support for children of low income parents, rent from a property he owns plus book sales.
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The power of dividend growth
Old 07-20-2008, 08:07 PM   #8
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The power of dividend growth

Dividend-growth stocks can pay off big over a period of many decades (The Power of Dividend Growth).

One of the paragraphs in the book The Dividend Growth Investment Strategy: How to Keep Your Retirement Income Doubling Every Five Years is the following, which shows what half a century of compounding can do:

Quote:
In 1944 Anne Scheiber, a lifelong federal employee whose income never surpassed $3,150 a year--yes, the figure is correct!--invested $5,000 in blue-chip stocks. When she died in 1995 her stocks were worth $22 million--that figure is also correct!--and she was receiving an annual income of over $1 million in dividends from them. The Dividend Growth Investment Strategy tells how she did it and how others can invest long-term in stock for retirement income.
Compounding works wonders when left to do its magic over a period of many decades (which is why it's important to start when one is young). It might be possible to retire on one's investment income after only a couple of decades when starting from scratch by using the strategy of LBYM and investing the rest intelligently (assuming good health and few family responsibilities). It may take others a decade or two longer, but it doesn't matter how long it takes once you arrive (i.e., the supermarket checkout clerk doesn't care how long it took you to be able to live on the investment income you are using to pay for your groceries).

The book The Automatic Millionaire: A Powerful One-Step Plan to Live and Finish Rich probably describes how many people on this list were able to FIRE. I was using the principles described in this book long before it was written because the book is about basic financial common sense. The book reinforced what I was doing and helped me steer clear of the "get rich quick" schemes (such as trying to time the market) that were a temptation when the market took its tumble after the dot-com bust.

Combining the approaches described in these two books should result in a winning strategy anyone can use to FIRE. I was able to FIRE using the "total return" approach (with managed accounts) described in the book Work Less, Live More. Now I'm putting fresh money into dividend growth stocks to get a margin of safety so that my FIRE situation is that much stronger (the current volatile market conditions are providing a strong motivation to stick to my plan, in addition to allowing me to buy good dividend growth stocks on the cheap).

The recently-published book The Ultimate Dividend Playbook: Income, Insight and Independence for Today's Investor describes what to look for in a good dividend-paying stock. I've found that investing $20 in a good personal finance book provides a very high ROI once its principles are digested and practiced (and one can raise that ROI even higher by borrowing these kinds of books from the local library).
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:25 PM   #9
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Dividend-growth stocks can pay off big over a period of many decades (The Power of Dividend Growth).

One of the paragraphs in the book The Dividend Growth Investment Strategy: How to Keep Your Retirement Income Doubling Every Five Years is the following, which shows what half a century of compounding can do:



Compounding works wonders when left to do its magic over a period of many decades (which is why it's important to start when one is young). It might be possible to retire on one's investment income after only a couple of decades when starting from scratch by using the strategy of LBYM and investing the rest intelligently (assuming good health and few family responsibilities). It may take others a decade or two longer, but it doesn't matter how long it takes once you arrive (i.e., the supermarket checkout clerk doesn't care how long it took you to be able to live on the investment income you are using to pay for your groceries).

The book The Automatic Millionaire: A Powerful One-Step Plan to Live and Finish Rich probably describes how many people on this list were able to FIRE. I was using the principles described in this book long before it was written because the book is about basic financial common sense. The book reinforced what I was doing and helped me steer clear of the "get rich quick" schemes (such as trying to time the market) that were a temptation when the market took its tumble after the dot-com bust.

Combining the approaches described in these two books should result in a winning strategy anyone can use to FIRE. I was able to FIRE using the "total return" approach (with managed accounts) described in the book Work Less, Live More. Now I'm putting fresh money into dividend growth stocks to get a margin of safety so that my FIRE situation is that much stronger (the current volatile market conditions are providing a strong motivation to stick to my plan, in addition to allowing me to buy good dividend growth stocks on the cheap).

The recently-published book The Ultimate Dividend Playbook: Income, Insight and Independence for Today's Investor describes what to look for in a good dividend-paying stock. I've found that investing $20 in a good personal finance book provides a very high ROI once its principles are digested and practiced (and one can raise that ROI even higher by borrowing these kinds of books from the local library).
That sounds like very good advice to me.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:31 AM   #10
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Another thing that doesn't seem to be real popular about Derek is his taking advantage of some Canadian Child Support System.
This is what happens when benefits are strictly means-tested for current annual income. Even young, able-bodied folks with substantial assets can suckle from the public teat.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:33 AM   #11
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Just read through the discussion on the link - thanks.

Truth is he has an an income from multiple sources - his dividend paying portfolio, the Canadian government income support for children of low income parents, rent from a property he owns plus book sales.
So..........a Canadien version of Suze Orman?? How trite.........
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:22 AM   #12
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Couldn't see myself retiring with only $400,000 even without the free healthcare, it seems more people on this forum need closer to a million, even with social security and a paid off house.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:37 AM   #13
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Actually the $400,000 portfolio might work out for him. Why? In Canada dividend income is given a low tax rate, when you get down to the lowest tax bracket your tax credit becomes greater than your dividend. So Mr. Foster isn't paying ANY income tax. None, zero, zip, $0.

If I didn't have to pay any income tax and had a low cost of living this just might work. Not to mention that books sales I imagine has given him a nice buffer now. Likely he is closer to $500,000 for a portfolio.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:41 AM   #14
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Actually the $400,000 portfolio might work out for him. Why? In Canada dividend income is given a low tax rate, when you get down to the lowest tax bracket your tax credit becomes greater than your dividend. So Mr. Foster isn't paying ANY income tax. None, zero, zip, $0.
Nice loophole there. I don't fault someone for using legal means to "game the system" like this, but it does show that perhaps some laws and tax breaks/credits need to be tightened up a bit...
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 07-21-2008, 10:00 AM   #15
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I understand it is probably acceptable for him, with a paid off house, a rental property, $0 taxes and free healthcare. I think it would be perfectly fine for me or anyone else to retire IN HIS situation. Most Americans, however, do not have even close to the situation that he has and it would be irresponsible to suggest that anyone can retire at age 34 with $400,000.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:36 AM   #16
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In the first place, toss away 100k, us Americans are tougher, 300k is more challenging, I'm the only guy that could/did pull it off( a legend in my own mind), not recommended for anyone else - although a few posters here beat my all time 12k, one yr. budget.

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heh heh heh - Canadian woosie probably uses heat in winter. . 'Don't read books!' - unclemick.

BTW - retire on 300k - boy! I'd never try THAT again. All praise to balanced index and Mr Bogle.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:38 AM   #17
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In the first place, toss away 100k, us Americans are tougher, 300k is more challenging, I'm the only guy that could/did pull it, not recommended for anyone else - although a few posters here beat my all time 12k, one budget.

'Do or do not - there is no try' Yoda

'Never tell me the odds' - Han Solo.

heh heh heh - Canadian woosie probably uses heat in winter. . 'Don't read books!' - unclemick.

BTW - retire on 300k - boy! I'd never try THAT again. All praise to balanced index and Mr Bogle.
In retrospect, you retired at perhaps the best time possible. From 1993-1999, you made an absolute killing in the market, but I am sure back in 1993, you were CERTAIN that would NOT happen.........
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:57 AM   #18
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My wickedly devious mind is trying to trigger a 'how low can you go' ala back when I joined this forum in 2003 recycling dryer sheets and walking barefoot to school uphill both ways. Over gravel.

After all Dory36's original 33% That's My Story hooked me on this forum. Which implies at the other of the stick from the budget a smaller nest egg to step off into retirement than many contemplate.



heh heh heh -
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:59 AM   #19
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In the first place, toss away 100k, us Americans are tougher, 300k is more challenging, I'm the only guy that could/did pull it off( a legend in my own mind), not recommended for anyone else - although a few posters here beat my all time 12k, one yr. budget.

BTW - retire on 300k - boy! I'd never try THAT again. All praise to balanced index and Mr Bogle.
Well unclemick, we are following in your cheap bastardhood footsteps. We 're around 40 and hope to make it 20 yrs until a reduced pension kicks in. We live on about 18.5k for a family of 4. It's all about defining what is enough for YOUR situation. WE can do this because we are very frugal and wanted DH home instead of working 60-80 hr weeks. We have a paid for house that we will sell if the market ever picks up, paid for cars, and pay for our own health insurance. If we need to do something for money again, we will.

Couldn't get to 12 k though, so you're still the king.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:26 PM   #20
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In the late nineties I used to live on about $700 a month (though health insurance was covered by employer). I have kept my old checkbook registers to remind myself that it can indeed be done. Off course back then sharing an apartment with a psycho roommate and some giant roaches did not faze me much... Income was $1283 net. Rent $320 a month. Food was around $150, Utilities about $70, About $160 cash to pay for miscellaneous (gifts, movies, etc...). No car for a long time, I used public transportation and walked to most places which is what I had done most of my life anyways (I got my first car when I was 24). I saved the rest. Would I do I again? Probably not, though those were pretty exciting years in my life. Could I do it again? yes, though I would rather live alone in a clean shoebox rather than the spacious roach-infested love nest I used to rent back then. Prior to the love nest, I lived in a 150 sq. ft. "apartment" ($200 a month rent, very very clean, no TV), and quite frankly if my wife ever left me, I could very well do it again. I kinda miss it sometimes. I do come from a long line of frugalistas though. Until her death last year my grand mother lived on less than $500 a month, saving almost half of her social security check each month. And her brother lived on even less that that claiming my grandmother was wasting money when she installed central heating in her house.

But living in a country that provides its citizens with a wide range of social benefits is definitely an advantage for the people who retire on less. I know a few people who retired early in western Europe with much less than a million dollar. Somebody with a 400,000 euros portfolio can generate an income of around 1350 euros a month (right on par with minimum wage). If you own your home and you are single, you can live a good but simple life on that amount in many parts of western Europe.
Such an income, in the countries I am more familiar with, is low enough to exempt you from taxes and to qualify you to receive a bunch of government benefits (you can get money to help you pay your rent, you can get money to help you raise a child, etc...). So if your not ashamed to play the system, your net income might actually be much higher than $1350. It could actually start to rival the average net income earned by working people with decent qualifications!
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