Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 01:33 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
You can't eat toys and DVD players.
Gabe begs to differ. He's munching on a toy right now.
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 01:36 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Good God, man!

Toys are cheaper than bread, so you feed the kid plastic??. That is bargain hunting! Hats off!
__________________

__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 01:46 PM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 239
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Check out chili....the 16 oz. cans are quietly being replaced by 14.3 oz. boxes...
__________________
All the best....Mike
I'd rather live in a rustic cabin and be free than in a McMansion as a slave!
Mountain_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 01:48 PM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

I remember when I used to deliver pizzas for Little Caesar's back in 1996-1997. For awhile, the most expensive single component of each pizza was...get this...the box that it came in! Then, for awhile, insurance rates shot up, so averaged out, the cost of the insurance for me to deliver the pizzas was the single biggest component.

At least when I worked at Papa John's, the most expensive single ingredient was the cheese!

BTW, there used to be a local Metro (Basics before that, and I think it's a Shoppers Food Warehouse now) near my old condo where we could get the cheap bread for 39 cents per loaf. That was back around 1995-1996.
__________________
Andre1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 02:50 PM   #45
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 909
Send a message via ICQ to Marshac Send a message via AIM to Marshac Send a message via Yahoo to Marshac
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
Palladium, check.. wonder how much palladium I'll be using next year??
More than you think? Platinum group metals are used in a lot of industrial processes and products. If you think Palladium had a nice run up, check out Rhodium.
__________________
Marshac is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Visible inflation
Old 02-14-2006, 03:43 PM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Visible inflation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
Bread prices in Italy...
The quote says: "In 1950 a kilo of bread was equal to 1.1% of the daily worker's salary for a standard month composed of 30 days, while in 2004 a kilo of bread was equal to 10.6%. In other terms, the cost of bread* has gone up tenfold in 50 years. Let's make a calculation closer to our own times: in 2001 a kilo of bread in Italy cost the equivalent of 1.25, as against 1 in France and .90 in Spain. At the eve of the fourth anniversary of the common currency, we have gone to 3.50, the French to 1.50 and the Spanish to 1.40."
Dang.. I can buy a 450 gram loaf of Italian bread at SuperWalmart for USD$0.60 usually (not sure how much that is in yur euro Monopoly money). Why is Italian bread so much more expensive in Italy? Maybe I should start a business exporting Italian bread from USA to Italy?

Seriously, does the average worker in Italy spend 3.50 (or 10.6%) of his 33 daily salary on a kilo of bread? Is this boutique pricing? Has walmart not come to Italy yet? Maybe I should scrap the bread exporting business idea and start a little bakery right in Italy.
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 06:47 PM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 75
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Cute Fuzzy Bunny)
I posted on this last year, however that post was hijacked into feeding extra rib eye steaks to your dogs.
Where did the extra rib eye steaks come from ? .. just curious.
__________________
Chris24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 07:01 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Well, someone went off on how their wife buys stuff when its on sale and puts it in the freezer, where it sits for years until its fed to the dogs or thrown out. I'm presuming dogs will eat rib eyes that have been in the freezer for any length of time.

Forget who it was. Someone who posts primarily off topic stuff that isnt that interesting.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 08:51 PM   #49
Recycles dryer sheets
VoyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 445
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

I'm seeing this sneaky stuff in other areas, too.
The supermarkets here would double coupons up to 50 cents; for the 55-cent and up coupons, they'd round up to $1. Now they still double the 50 cent coupons, but anything above that goes for face value.

At the theaters, 6 p.m. has been the cutoff time to get the matinee price. AMC has recently shifted the cutoff to 4 p.m. ... after that, you pay full price
__________________
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised." -- Kathryn Janeway
VoyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-14-2006, 11:11 PM   #50
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoyT
At the theaters, 6 p.m. has been the cutoff time to get the matinee price. AMC has recently shifted the cutoff to 4 p.m. ... after that, you pay full price
Another reason to ER!
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 04:28 AM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
a 450 gram loaf of Italian bread at SuperWalmart for USD$0.60 usually (not sure how much that is in yur euro Monopoly money)
$.60 = .50 or thereabouts right now. Your 450g loaf at $.60 transates into 1.11/kilo. Lower, but I'm not sure the difference between your price and the Franch/Spanish price would cover your import costs. Also, not sure what the market is for days-old bread..!*

Since most of the bread sold in the US is probably of the rectangular, sliced, packaged loaf variety, it's probably a little easier to compare: the prices are going to stick within a certain range. In Europe, it's a little different: sliced rectangular loaves are available, but most people choose a less "industrial" product and there are more small bakeries. I think the 3.50 price above is a Milano price (read $$$) for what would be called in the US an 'artisan' loaf by a local baker. The bread I buy in the supermarket costs about 2.79/kilo (about $1.50/lb.).

This thing with bread is fascinating to me because:
-the ingredients are few, basic, inexpensive, and have been readily available for centuries
-it's simple to make, and follows certain laws of nature, so "technology" has a limited impact on its production
-it's consumed in much of the world, and by rich and poor alike
-it's a basic food, not a luxury in most places (in some places, I know.. any food is a luxury, but I think you get my gist)
-it's usually made relatively locally, so transportation/importation costs are less of an issue w/r/t price

Quote:
Has walmart not come to Italy yet?
No, but we do have IKEA.

As for the average Italian, Justin, they are screaming bloody murder.. Things have been VASTly complicated by the entrance into the euro, as the switchover gave businesses the opportunity for a big one-off price hike, so it's hard to analyse what prices "should" be.. The pizza that cost 8,000 lire (4.00) in 2000 now costs 9.

They are all complaining about the same things (well, almost) that you guys are complaining about.. A sampling from a newpaper forum of about a year ago (when this topic was more in the news):

"From 2002 to 2003 the annual fee for cemetary lighting and maintenance in Rome, under the ACEA monopoly, has gone up 73.83% according to the bills in my possession."

"With the new year the Express Mail stamp has gone down a few cents. Too bad that they reduced considerably the amount of weight permitted. Result: doubled mailing costs."

"My father uses an LPG tank for the kitchen. In 2000 a tank cost 45,000 lire [23.24], now [2004] 50."

"I'm a university student and to partially maintain myself (I still live with my family) I naturally work off the books as a waiter. 8 hours of work for 25 twice a week. I assure you that when I was working back in the days of the lira, with 10,000 lire in my pocket I was a king; now instead with 5 euros I don't even know if I'll be able to make it home.."

"With 2600 net per month I felt pretty privileged until the arrival of the euro which has taken me back to my lifestyle 15 years ago when I made about 2,000,000 lire[1000]. I've cut my car costs, sold my BMW 520 for a Ford Fiesta, I've cut out trips, I've given up the croissant with my coffee; I only permit myself social communication expenses like mobile phone, Internet and computer. My savings account has collapsed."* [this writer is a doctor.]


They are all also up in arms over the ISTAT figures (like our CPI) that reported inflation in 2004 at about 2.2%.. Same situation: cell phones cost less, but who cares!!? Report the rises in basic necessities!

Somebody has the solution:
Quote:
1) prendere Luigi Biggeri (presidente Istat)
2) dargli due bei cazzotti
3) prendersi denuncia per lesioni
4) difendersi dicendo che le percosse sono solo percepite ma non reali
"1) take Luigi Biggeri (president of ISTAT)
2) punch his lights out
3) get accused of assault
4) defend yourself saying the punches were only perceived, not real"*

__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 08:35 AM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
$.60 = .50 or thereabouts right now. Your 450g loaf at $.60 transates into 1.11/kilo. Lower, but I'm not sure the difference between your price and the Franch/Spanish price would cover your import costs. Also, not sure what the market is for days-old bread..!

Since most of the bread sold in the US is probably of the rectangular, sliced, packaged loaf variety, it's probably a little easier to compare: the prices are going to stick within a certain range. In Europe, it's a little different: sliced rectangular loaves are available, but most people choose a less "industrial" product and there are more small bakeries. I think the 3.50 price above is a Milano price (read $$$) for what would be called in the US an 'artisan' loaf by a local baker. The bread I buy in the supermarket costs about 2.79/kilo (about $1.50/lb.).
I was talking about $0.60 for a loaf of "Italian" bread - fresh baked, 450 g, long and oval in shape. I think for $0.75 I can get the artisan bread - with herbs and spices mixed in the dough and/or topped with herbs/spices/cheese.

Maybe walmart will grace italy with its presence one day. Then you'll see some deflation.
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 09:11 AM   #53
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 32
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

With DH retired and our income cut, I've gone to making a science out of grocery shopping. I read the grocery ad as if it's Grisham's latest and really work those double coupons to maximum advantage. If nothing else I feel like I'm at least limiting what the Man gets!
__________________
cabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 09:31 AM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Justin, I can sincerely say I wouldn't really look forward to Wal*Mart in Italy. I don't mean to be snotty; I'm sure the Wal*Mart bread is OK.. prob. a lot better than Wonder Bread, but sprinkling some oregano or cheese on industrial dough doesn't make it "artisan".

What I meant by artisanal bread is bread that has a long proofing time, is baked in small batches without additives or preservatives, preferably in a wood-fired oven. It's a whole 'nother animal. Yes, one will have to pay more for such a bread; that's why I glossed over the 3.50 price. But I'm still paying 2.79 for mass-produced bread.

The point of all the price numbers was to try and point out alarmingly high, widespread inflation in Europe for "bread". I don't know how they got the numbers, whether they took an average of all types of bread available or not...

--
cabbage, you are right.. ya gotta shop the sales. I was always amazed at how few people seemed to have been stocking up on specials in the US. Sometimes retired folks, often immigrants, but everyone else seems to be more into the prepared salads, frozen entrees, etc. Never could figure out the 'rotisserie' chicken for $6-7 when you can get a $3 chicken and put it in the oven. I got the feeling there was an "I'm worth it" factor, and that they would be embarrassed to be seen with 12 packages of pasta or paper towels when they were half-off.

__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 09:48 AM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

The new super wal mart opened up about 2 weeks ago. Its actually the closest store to us and the only one I dont have to go on a major road to reach. I can see why the other supermarkets are freaking out. Very neat, fully loaded produce section. Extensive meat selection. Plus I could buy a loaf of bread and a childs bike helmet on one occasion, and milk and a car charger for a cell phone on another. Prices arent as good as "loss leader" sales at the more expensive places to shop, but they're almost as good and their every day prices are about 30-40% lower on a lot of items. Selection is not as good as some others, but they have all the basics. Customers are completely coming from the cheap to mid range supermarkets. The expensive markets parking lots are still full.

I'd feel bad for the small businesses in the area, but i've been in all of them and their service, selection and pricing stink. Not just sub par...fully smellerocious.

But anyhow, back to topic...we had a loaf of walmart store bakery made sourdough with our crab legs last night. Surprisingly good. Certainly not the quality one gets at the local snooty high end bakery, but pretty close and 1/4 the cost.

And way back to topic, shopping here is not only convenient and saves me gas and time, its on the whole well cheaper than the other places I shop. Certainly helps with the invisible inflation.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 10:52 AM   #56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
Justin, I can sincerely say I wouldn't really look forward to Wal*Mart in Italy. I don't mean to be snotty; I'm sure the Wal*Mart bread is OK.. prob. a lot better than Wonder Bread, but sprinkling some oregano or cheese on industrial dough doesn't make it "artisan".

What I meant by artisanal bread is bread that has a long proofing time, is baked in small batches without additives or preservatives, preferably in a wood-fired oven. It's a whole 'nother animal. Yes, one will have to pay more for such a bread; that's why I glossed over the 3.50 price. But I'm still paying 2.79 for mass-produced bread.
You sure you're not French?

Enjoy that extremely overpriced hand made bread. I'm sure the (organic) wheat flour is hand-cut and ground on only the finest of millstones at a 17th century monastery. And the water is undoubtedly fresh from an Alpine spring and it has been filtered with the utmost quality, purity and taste in mind. The butter probably comes from a pedigree of bovine excellence dating back to the 14th century. And the yeast is of unquestionable quality and freshness and comes from a strain originally used in the palaces of the Medici's themselves.

I wonder how much better the Italian bread in Italy is compared to the Italian bread made by walmart? Cause walmart's bread is pretty dang good!

__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 11:01 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Cute Fuzzy Bunny)
Plus I could buy a loaf of bread and a childs bike helmet on one occasion, and milk and a car charger for a cell phone on another. Prices arent as good as "loss leader" sales at the more expensive places to shop, but they're almost as good and their every day prices are about 30-40% lower on a lot of items. Selection is not as good as some others, but they have all the basics. Customers are completely coming from the cheap to mid range supermarkets. The expensive markets parking lots are still full.

And way back to topic, shopping here is not only convenient and saves me gas and time, its on the whole well cheaper than the other places I shop. Certainly helps with the invisible inflation.
Very convenient, and low prices to boot.

If you enjoy spending 1+ hour every day running around town to buy your food and household items at a mutlitude of stores (the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, Snooty grocery store, etc) to get the utmost in quality and selection at a high price, then continue doing this.

For me, I look at purchasing the required groceries and household items as a chore. Said chore is usually dispatched once per week by a visit to my superwalmart that is 1.7 miles from my house. Time required - usually 1-1.5 hours. It's all about efficiency for me.
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 11:39 AM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Not sure about the bread... Mrs. Baird's whole-wheat for about a buck seventy-five, but I've got the loaf part down pat!!
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 12:11 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Enjoy that extremely overpriced hand made bread. I'm sure the (organic) wheat flour is hand-cut and ground on only the finest of millstones at a 17th century monastery. And the water is undoubtedly fresh from an Alpine spring and it has been filtered with the utmost quality, purity and taste in mind. The butter probably comes from a pedigree of bovine excellence dating back to the 14th century. And the yeast is of unquestionable quality and freshness and comes from a strain originally used in the palaces of the Medici's themselves.
Penn and Teller have a show on Showtime called, appropriately, Bullshit! I highly recommend it to anyone who has Showtime. Basically they debunk stuff, although the cynicism runs deeply. The one I watched last night was a prime example of your comments. They had a willing accomplice take a gourmand/oenophile to a fancy downtown restaurant. The waiter brough them out bruschetta, kobe beef with a reduction sauce and mashed potatoes, poached lobster and a whipped vanilla dessert topped with "25 year old cinnamon liquer".

The waiter laid it on even more thickly than you did. The bruschetta for example was artisan bread, hand picked tomatoes, basil and olive oil all raised organically and grown in the same small valley in tuscany. In fact, he went on so long and deep I would have been suspicious "oh...come on!".

The food was accompanied by "the most expensive wine in the wine cellar", and a description was read that was compatible with a $1000 bottle of wine.

The gourmands and oenophiles raved about the food and drink.

Now for the rest of the story. The "bruschetta" was made from day old bread bought at a gas station, tomatoes from a can, and olive oil bought at a convenience store/minimart. The kobe beef was from a frozen dinner and the reduction sauce was gravy from a can.. The "organic yukon gold mashed potatoes" were instant from a box that had been molded in a tuna fish can (complete with some of the juice) and then torched with a blow torch. The "lobster" was monkfish simmered in a can of stock. The vanilla dessert was the store brand version of 'cool whip' with some cinnamon schnaaps on it. The wine was bottled in New Jersey and sold for $1.99.

All made on a cart in the alley behind the restaurant by the shows special effects guy, who admittedly knows next to nothing about cooking.

Their upshot point about the show (titled something like "the best") was that we want to eat and drink the very best, and if we think we are, the mind has a fairly good influence over our feelings about the experience, which translates into satisfaction. Further, that with consideration of world history, even our 'crappy food' is pretty darn good compared with what most people have eaten, in most places, most of the time.

The gourmands/oenophiles at the end of the show were shown the hidden cameras and clued in as to what the food actually was, where it came from, and how it was prepared...looked pretty dang pissed.

Except for yanking those folks pants down, for which I'm sure they were well compensated in order to secure their agreement to be shown on television, it was pretty interesting.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Invisible Inflation continues
Old 02-15-2006, 12:20 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Invisible Inflation continues

Link to the show, watch the video. This guy professes to be a huge wine nut.

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=best

Interesting articles linked as well.
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inflation and market performance Rich_by_the_Bay FIRECalc support 6 07-08-2006 06:56 AM
Panama Inflation Arif FIRE and Money 7 04-19-2006 08:39 AM
Go with TIPs or am I crazy? Mister Bill FIRE and Money 147 06-14-2005 10:25 AM
Invisible Inflation cute fuzzy bunny FIRE and Money 6 05-24-2004 10:04 AM
Retiree Inflation Rate? mccl FIRE and Money 4 05-13-2004 08:51 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:13 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.