Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-21-2014, 09:19 AM   #201
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by anethum View Post
I don't think that Meadbh's comment was harsh at all. Planning for ER knowing that there will be no pension whatsoever is a totally different animal compared to ER with a pension, and entails greater risk. Americans seeking to ER without a pension typically have to plan for purchasing health insurance, as well. Many (most?) Americans who will get a pension qualify for subsidized health insurance when they retire.

People with pensions don't necessarily earn less pre-retirement, and they typically have FAR more job security than non-pension careers.
Thank you!
__________________

__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-21-2014, 09:20 AM   #202
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Bay
Posts: 1,026
Quote:
I've been wondering whether it's possible that such an old microwave could be leaking radiation, and it might be better for me to ditch it and get a new one anyway.

It's a Kenmore. I'm not sure if that is still a trusted brand, but my microwave certainly doesn't owe me anything.
I had my grandmother's 1980's vintage Kenmore microwave oven up to a few years ago. One evening I reached up to open the door with my left hand. I heard a funny pop noise from the watch on my left wrist, and when I looked, it had been reset to 00:00:00. The watch continued to run and so I just reset it, but I stood clear of the microwave after that, and replaced it as soon as I had a chance!
__________________

__________________
scrinch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:37 AM   #203
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by anethum View Post
I don't think that Meadbh's comment was harsh at all. Planning for ER knowing that there will be no pension whatsoever is a totally different animal compared to ER with a pension, and entails greater risk. Americans seeking to ER without a pension typically have to plan for purchasing health insurance, as well. Many (most?) Americans who will get a pension qualify for subsidized health insurance when they retire.

People with pensions don't necessarily earn less pre-retirement, and they typically have FAR more job security than non-pension careers.

As a pensioner, I find no fault in your line of thinking (though I get no healthcare benes). In fact for the public in general who have good pensions, the greatest benefit of a pension is it saves yourself, from yourself, which thus insures a lifetime stream of income. Most people on here do not need that. But most of my friends have or will have pensions. And without that backstop they wouldn't have anything I am sure. I would still be working too, as I have made many poor financial choices also, and doubt seriously I could have "stayed the course" my whole working career. But on the other hand, I have no real legacy to pass on when I go, because the pension income goes too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:56 AM   #204
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
As a pensioner, I find no fault in your line of thinking (though I get no healthcare benes). In fact for the public in general who have good pensions, the greatest benefit of a pension is it saves yourself, from yourself, which thus insures a lifetime stream of income.

A Pension also saves you from the whims of the stock market . Luckily I had a pension when the stock market dropped in 2008 . It saved my sanity .I consider my pension & SS my safety net .
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:04 AM   #205
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
A Pension also saves you from the whims of the stock market . Luckily I had a pension when the stock market dropped in 2008 . It saved my sanity .I consider my pension & SS my safety net .
Meanwhile, the pension fund managers were very worried, because they shouldered the risk. The difference between people with and without pensioners is that pensioners are shielded from market risk as long as the pension plan remains solvent, whereas non-pensioners undertake that risk individually. The sequence of returns risk cannot be unloaded onto future liabilities, nor can contributions be increased. Non-pensioners have only one chance to get it right.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:09 AM   #206
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
A Pension also saves you from the whims of the stock market . Luckily I had a pension when the stock market dropped in 2008 . It saved my sanity .I consider my pension & SS my safety net .

That is true, and that is probably the counterbalance to the "negative" of the pension dying when recipient dies. The 2008 crash dropped my pension fund from around 29 billion or so down to 18 Billion. Since the money is pooled and is continually bringing money into the system no one is effected short term. Fortunately it recovered quickly and is now near 40 billion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:09 AM   #207
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Meanwhile, the pension fund managers were very worried, because they shouldered the risk. The difference between people with and without pensioners is that pensioners are shielded from market risk as long as the pension plan remains solvent, whereas non-pensioners undertake that risk individually. The sequence of returns risk cannot be unloaded onto future liabilities, nor can contributions be increased. Non-pensioners have only one chance to get it right.
While I think some pension plans overpromised based on unrealistic projections on investment returns, there are certainly more prudent plans that have not done so and are likely to remain pretty solvent. (In a collective bargaining situation, it's easier for management to promise larger future pensions than give current raises.)

It's a shame the "three legged stool" approach isn't spreading. It seems many folks have to shoulder all the risk through their own investments, or limit their upside (and put risk on others) through substantial pensions. I know feds working under FERS have a three-legged stool, but not many others do except for folks who have had their pension plans frozen and now only get 401Ks.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:20 AM   #208
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Meanwhile, the pension fund managers were very worried, because they shouldered the risk. The difference between people with and without pensioners is that pensioners are shielded from market risk as long as the pension plan remains solvent, whereas non-pensioners undertake that risk individually. The sequence of returns risk cannot be unloaded onto future liabilities, nor can contributions be increased. Non-pensioners have only one chance to get it right.

That is the key benefit in a nutshell for my pension. As it is a trust and has no pension guarantee backstop. But that in itself is very valuable. What if I had my own stash with no pension and sold at the bottom in 2008, because I could not risk losing anymore? The pension does not provide me the opportunity to panic and do the wrong thing at the wrong time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:24 AM   #209
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog View Post
Sea Kayaker and NW Bound, DH and I bought waterfront property on Whidbey Island in the early 90s for our future retirement home (saved for it and paid cash). We held on to the property and finally built a 1700' 2BR/2B home via UBuildIt program about 7 years ago without a mortgage. We spend our weekends and vacation time on the island and I will be living on the island full time after 8/1 (DH will join 6/16). Our property is on stable midbank bluff, but we have water/boat slip access just down the road. We have a beautiful view of Camano Island and Mt. Baker. I have a nice size garden area for vegetables and flowers and we kept the small old cabin for our tool/garden shed. I do crab using my kayak using a small ring trap. Allows me to putz and enjoy the sea life. Also good clamming and mussels from our tidelands. The house was designed and built with a water view from every room (except 2nd bath and laundry room) for those stormy winter days

Truly our dream realized. NW Bound, I say go for it!!!!
Looks like you have found your little corner of paradise. Congrats.

As for me, I dunno. I should stop looking at Zillow until my net worth reaches $5M, which may never happen as the market may just crash again. Or when it happens I am so old I stop caring about this. And then, house prices will go up too. During the Great Recession, I saw some nice waterfront properties on Bainbridge going for around $1M, and they are all higher now.

Anyway, why am I still thinking about this? Am I the fabled dog who dropped the bone in its mouth to get that one reflected in the water? My high country home is on a ridge and higher than anybody within a 1/2 mile radius. I am king of the hill and look down on my neighbors from my 700-sq.ft. deck. I should be happy with what I have. And I already see that one big obstacle with moving is that we will be leaving my children and our extended family behind.

So, no more Zillow surfing until that sack of money falls out of the sky, so that I can buy that expensive home. I should be spending more time to look for places to visit on my upcoming cross-country RV trip of 9,000 miles.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:24 AM   #210
Full time employment: Posting here.
GTFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live And Learn View Post
37K =
28k HI premium + OOP max per ACA with zero subsidy
6k Income Tax
3k Property tax
$28k is still an insane amount to budget for a Bronze plan, IMO. Around here I can get one for two people for around $650 a month, and max OOP is $12,700 for the family. So it's a lot closer to $20k than $28k, and that assumes the worst case where both of you max out HC expenses.

Of course this doesn't include vision/dental, but I can't see how that would be anywhere near another $8k a year.
__________________
GTFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:39 AM   #211
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by anethum View Post
I don't think that Meadbh's comment was harsh at all. Planning for ER knowing that there will be no pension whatsoever is a totally different animal compared to ER with a pension, and entails greater risk. Americans seeking to ER without a pension typically have to plan for purchasing health insurance, as well. Many (most?) Americans who will get a pension qualify for subsidized health insurance when they retire.

People with pensions don't necessarily earn less pre-retirement, and they typically have FAR more job security than non-pension careers.
During the dot com era, I chose to give up a pensioned job with an utility company, and went to pursue a series of dot com companies. Many of my old colleagues are still with the utility company and will enjoy their pension.

I sometimes thought about the security that I gave up, but I do not regret taking the risk since that choice opened up other doors for me and I can see them in my savings.
__________________
fh2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:57 AM   #212
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Live And Learn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTFan View Post
$28k is still an insane amount to budget for a Bronze plan, IMO. Around here I can get one for two people for around $650 a month, and max OOP is $12,700 for the family. So it's a lot closer to $20k than $28k, and that assumes the worst case where both of you max out HC expenses.

Of course this doesn't include vision/dental, but I can't see how that would be anywhere near another $8k a year.
I agree that its an insane amount of money but it is what it is. Premiums of $997 / month and 12.6 OOP max = $24.6k Medical. Eyecare is $500 / person / year. Dental is $500 / person / year. At most I'm overstated by 1k.

Anything I don't spend for medical will go into the travel fund the following year.
__________________
"For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." ~
Hebrews 12:11

ER'd in June 2015 at age 52. Initial WR 3%. 50/40/10 (Equity/Bond/Short Term) AA.
Live And Learn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 04:15 PM   #213
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live And Learn View Post
I agree that its an insane amount of money but it is what it is. Premiums of $997 / month and 12.6 OOP max = $24.6k Medical. Eyecare is $500 / person / year. Dental is $500 / person / year. At most I'm overstated by 1k.

Anything I don't spend for medical will go into the travel fund the following year.
Unless you have significant vision/dental issues, wouldn't you be better off to go without insurance for those? We don't have significant vision/dental issues and spend far less than that for the services we need.

As an aside, if the lowest cost bronze plan exceeds 8% of your MAGI you can buy catastrophic coverage, which is often significantly less premium. My catastrophic max is only $100 more than your $12.6 OOP max.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 04:34 PM   #214
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
I did a walk in San Francisco across Presidio Heights over to Land's End, passing "mansions" with great views of the bay and Golden Gate Bridge.

These properties go up to almost $20 million.

Now can the novelty of that view wear off? Does it lead to greater happiness than a home without sea views?

People who own these kind of properties are likely to own other prime properties in places like Hawaii.

I remember in Sydney, there were apts overlooking the harbor and the most expensive of them were said to be worth tens of millions. Honestly, I thought the homes to the NE of the harbor looked more appealing, overlooking a less busy part of the whole bay there. But presumably that view of the bridge and the Opera House was the "in" thing, a great or indicator of status.
Of course now days you can get large screen TV's and set them up as if they were windows, and have a room that looks like its On the ocean on one side, and say at Mt Ranier on the other (with never a cloudy day to boot), or set them up to use web cams and have live views. Of course that is also more energy efficient since windows leak more heat than walls. (Plus or minus the need for emergency egress thru the windows).
__________________
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 07:34 PM   #215
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,407
They describe various display technologies as producing a window-like effect.

Exotic ones like large OLED displays are being developed but would cost about $10k and would have some burn-in susceptibility.

Guess still cheaper than buying some of these properties.
__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 07:40 PM   #216
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
They describe various display technologies as producing a window-like effect.

Exotic ones like large OLED displays are being developed but would cost about $10k and would have some burn-in susceptibility.

Guess still cheaper than buying some of these properties.
And you can think you live on the seashore one day and the mountains the next, without owning two homes.
__________________
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:29 PM   #217
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by meierlde View Post
And you can think you live on the seashore one day and the mountains the next, without owning two homes.
I commend to your reading the short story Light of Other Days by Bob Shaw.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:42 PM   #218
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by meierlde View Post
And you can think you live on the seashore one day and the mountains the next, without owning two homes.
.......which partly explains why property in Vancouver is insanely expensive.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:49 PM   #219
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I commend to your reading the short story Light of Other Days by Bob Shaw.
And then there is Lene Hau, arguably on her way to making slow glass (or such is my fantasy). http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/people/hau.cfm
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 10:19 PM   #220
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
I did a walk in San Francisco across Presidio Heights over to Land's End, passing "mansions" with great views of the bay and Golden Gate Bridge.

These properties go up to almost $20 million.

Now can the novelty of that view wear off? Does it lead to greater happiness than a home without sea views?

People who own these kind of properties are likely to own other prime properties in places like Hawaii.

I remember in Sydney, there were apts overlooking the harbor and the most expensive of them were said to be worth tens of millions. Honestly, I thought the homes to the NE of the harbor looked more appealing, overlooking a less busy part of the whole bay there. But presumably that view of the bridge and the Opera House was the "in" thing, a great or indicator of status.
Someone pointed out Robin William's house to me on a walk through Sea Cliff last year. Or as you say probably one of his houses. I just read he is broke and in rehab, so I don't think his houses or his money necessarily brought him any extra happiness over the average person, maybe even less.
__________________

__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Five Ways to Retire a Multi Millionaire Eyerishgold FIRE and Money 10 12-05-2010 09:09 AM
Cataract Surgery-Multi focal lens nwsteve Health and Early Retirement 15 10-07-2008 10:46 AM
Problem with Multi-MegaPixel Cameras TromboneAl Other topics 22 09-04-2007 07:32 AM
New guy & question on multi accounts Bimmerbill Hi, I am... 14 02-05-2006 08:22 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.