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Old 07-22-2014, 12:09 AM   #221
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Actually we passed by what is supposedly a house he gave to an ex wife.

Houses weren't that striking from the outside, though there was a replica of the Petit Trianon from Versailles.

Considering what they cost, the lots seemed small.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:10 PM   #222
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I think the general population on this site have a specific goal of FIRE in mind and have been working towards it for some time. If so, those principals of living below your means and saving/investing wisely would certainly equate to higher net worth, excluding home equity, vacation condo's, etc. It's a lifestyle
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:10 PM   #223
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Unless you have significant vision/dental issues, wouldn't you be better off to go without insurance for those? We don't have significant vision/dental issues and spend far less than that for the services we need.

As an aside, if the lowest cost bronze plan exceeds 8% of your MAGI you can buy catastrophic coverage, which is often significantly less premium. My catastrophic max is only $100 more than your $12.6 OOP max.
Thanks. My eyecare and dental estimates were for OOP (no insurance). Both DH and I wear glasses / contacts. Dental is currently just cleanings, but one cap will easily exceed the $1k budget per person. As we all know, I like to overestimate to quell my nervous-nelly-belly.

For HI, I'm using ACA numbers as an estimate only and I'm not including any potential subsidies. Thanks for the heads up on the catastrophic plans. I'll look into that.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:46 PM   #224
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Thanks. My eyecare and dental estimates were for OOP (no insurance). Both DH and I wear glasses / contacts. Dental is currently just cleanings, but one cap will easily exceed the $1k budget per person. As we all know, I like to overestimate to quell my nervous-nelly-belly.

For HI, I'm using ACA numbers as an estimate only and I'm not including any potential subsidies. Thanks for the heads up on the catastrophic plans. I'll look into that.
I think your numbers are reasonable for ACA unsubsidized non-catastrophic insurance. It would be the same here. The costs are what they are and the only way to lower them for us is with ACA subsidies.

For us the subsidies make downsizing and/or moving to a relatively lower cost of living area look even more financially attractive in retirement than it has been for retirees in years' past, as it would reduce our ongoing housing costs plus free up more after tax cash, making it possible to lower our taxable income / O-MAGI and pay $2 a month per person for an HSA Bronze plan. We don't go to the doctor much most years, so with a bit of luck and maybe some extra veggies we'd just have the teeth cleanings and eye exams to pay for then until Medicare age.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:20 PM   #225
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$2m goes a lot father in some areas than others and some people with that kind of NW may be used to living on much more than $108K.
Where do you get that quote for an immediate annuity. That's better than 5% and i dont think the annuity pays out that much for a 50 year old.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:28 PM   #226
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Where do you get that quote for an immediate annuity. That's better than 5% and i dont think the annuity pays out that much for a 50 year old.
I was responding to a previous post in this thread. I did not fact check the $108K as my forum posting fact checker assistant is on vacation this week.

The full post was:

"I went to a popular annuity calculator on the web and a male at 62yo today could buy a 15k/year annuity for about 235k today. Since you have many years to go to get to 62 this amount should be discounted for net present value from your age now to age 62.

I am puzzling about the 2 mil plus group, why they didn't retire sooner?? I guess they have a high expense life style or something. Since I am in the "frugal" category 2 mill plus seems gigantic.

A 50yo male with 2 million could buy an immediate annuity and get $108,720 a year until they die. Who needs 108k/year for a retirement."

Added -

I did just check it using immediateannuities.com and the $108K annual amount is valid according to that site.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:32 PM   #227
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Your budget is $37k for health insurance premiums and total out-of-pocket costs per year? Is that what the ACA insurance will cost you? Crazy to think that the median household income is $53k or so in the U.S. and your health insurance in retirement will cost you $28k-$37k per year.
The OOP cost is a maximum per year. I challenge the likelihood of needing to spend the maximum OOP cost in every year over the course of retirement is very very low.

In my opinion, this is an extremely conservative estimate of health care costs.... It's kinda like saying you will need major repairs on your house very single year. Just not gonna happen that way. Possible..yes.. Probable...not so much.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:45 AM   #228
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Agreed, but some people can't handle the planning without covering worst case expenses for every category. I think it's kind of silly personally because you can always adjust other stuff year to year if you have an unanticipated event, but it is what it is.

This is no different than adjusting down after a bad stock market year, IMO.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:34 AM   #229
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The OOP cost is a maximum per year. I challenge the likelihood of needing to spend the maximum OOP cost in every year over the course of retirement is very very low.
This is true but if you do plan for this you will set the upper bound and IMO it's better to plan for the upper bound than not. And a couple of illness/injuries could easily approach that upper bound for a few years in a row. That would be the worse case...of course if you need that much medical care chances are you aren't going to live till you are 105. I don't do my planning that way personally I plan for the most expensive plan that is reasonable for me (with much lower OOP expenses) as a way to estimate an average spending and an unknown health future
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:34 PM   #230
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The OOP cost is a maximum per year. I challenge the likelihood of needing to spend the maximum OOP cost in every year over the course of retirement is very very low.

In my opinion, this is an extremely conservative estimate of health care costs.... It's kinda like saying you will need major repairs on your house very single year. Just not gonna happen that way. Possible..yes.. Probable...not so much.
If you are maxing out your OOP every year, you are dealing with a major health issue, and not traveling, etc. I think you can assign your travel budget to help offset the OOP in this scenario.

We just have sufficient funds set aside to cover one year max OOP, assuming the more likely occasional event. So something less than max OOP is part of our annual budget based on past years.
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:18 PM   #231
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If you are maxing out your OOP every year, you are dealing with a major health issue, and not traveling, etc. I think you can assign your travel budget to help offset the OOP in this scenario.

We just have sufficient funds set aside to cover one year max OOP, assuming the more likely occasional event. So something less than max OOP is part of our annual budget based on past years.

Haven't had a health issue yet, but I worry I will have something happen to me right at the end of the calendar year, then get slammed with two years of out of pocket expenses on one issue.


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Old 07-23-2014, 02:23 PM   #232
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I'm not even close to being a millionaire let alone a multi. However, I do resist the urge to post often times. It's hard without feeling outclassed and I suspect there are others in the same boat who are below the $500k mark and usually are in the lurk-mode.

Of course, I do read and learn a lot from here especially when the smart people speak and drop nuggets of wisdom here and there.
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #233
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I'm not even close to being a millionaire let alone a multi. However, I do resist the urge to post often times. It's hard without feeling outclassed and I suspect there are others in the same boat who are below the $500k mark and usually are in the lurk-mode.

Of course, I do read and learn a lot from here especially when the smart people speak and drop nuggets of wisdom here and there.

Don't worry D. I'm there with you and they are quite nice to us poor people in the open forum. But just don't read the private messages as all of them will send you hate messages telling you to leave the forum. I am just kidding.


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Old 07-23-2014, 02:54 PM   #234
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Don't worry D. I'm there with you and they are quite nice to us poor people in the open forum. But just don't read the private messages as all of them will send you hate messages telling you to leave the forum. I am just kidding.


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Old 07-23-2014, 04:07 PM   #235
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Haha, thanks. Don't get me wrong, everyone's been nice and I feel finding this forum a yr ago or so has been the best thing happened to me from the financial stand point in a long time. I was just responding with my answer to the original question of this thread
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Old 07-23-2014, 04:24 PM   #236
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Haha, thanks. Don't get me wrong, everyone's been nice and I feel finding this forum a yr ago or so has been the best thing happened to me from the financial stand point in a long time. I was just was responding with my answer to the original question of this thread

Contribute when you feel like it! This place (to me) is like when you had to walk out to the mound to pitch and the other kids guided you by the elbows and patted your butt for confidence.
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Old 07-23-2014, 06:23 PM   #237
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I'm not even close to being a millionaire let alone a multi. However, I do resist the urge to post often times. It's hard without feeling outclassed and I suspect there are others in the same boat who are below the $500k mark and usually are in the lurk-mode.

Of course, I do read and learn a lot from here especially when the smart people speak and drop nuggets of wisdom here and there.
I don't think people are snobs. Now I do think many of the people here are done working by 50. To do that you will belong into one of the following categories:

1) You have government pension. If you tried to buy this pension on open market you will need million or millions.

2) You have you own million plus.

3) You live extremely frugal life. Like Montana cabin stile since retiring at age younger than 50 means you have to withdraw at very low rate. 3% would be aggressive IMO.

Bear in mind those people will be effected when they get SS because they most likely did not work for 35 years.

Hence forum will have ton of people in group 1 and 2.
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Old 07-23-2014, 06:47 PM   #238
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3) You live extremely frugal life. Like Montana cabin stile since retiring at age younger than 50 means you have to withdraw at very low rate. 3% would be aggressive IMO.

I don't get this statement. If 3% in aggressive, that means you are throwing past history out the door (4% has a 85% chance of lasting 40 years or more).

If 3% ends up failing in the future, how secure do you really think the 1) Government pensions are going to be?
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:02 PM   #239
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I don't get this statement. If 3% in aggressive, that means you are throwing past history out the door (4% has a 85% chance of lasting 40 years or more).

If 3% ends up failing in the future, how secure do you really think the 1) Government pensions are going to be?
I don't how well would work 4% withdrawal work for 49 your guy who retired in 2000 will lets say 800k.

Federal government pension of lets say O4 or GS-13 is very secure. Police officers pension less so but still quite secure. In worst case they will end up like in Detroit (get 1/2 of COLA). But yes such pension has some risks.
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:04 PM   #240
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I don't how well would work 4% withdrawal work for 49 your guy who retired in 2000 will lets say 800k.

Federal government pension of lets say O4 or GS-13 is very secure. Police officers pension less so but still quite secure. In worst case they will end up like in Detroit (get 1/2 of COLA). But yes such pension has some risks.
I don't have my plus 2 glasses and it shows
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