Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-01-2007, 03:50 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
txdakini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 60
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

DH and I are 54 and 55 respectively. Retiring in 5 months. We've mostly gotten grief from friends and family about even thinking about retiring. "What will you do all day?" "You're going to be bored, go crazy, etc." "you're going to move DOWN in your housing?" They assume that retiring must mean keeping the exact same living style or even upgrading so therefore we must have a lot more money than we do.

I led a Your Money Or Your Life group here for a few years. It's my belief that most of the folks who attended the meetings did so because they wanted someone to talk to who had similar values and issues. Many didn't even know about the YMOYL program. All of them lived below their means, were financially aware and knowledgeable, and generally wanted a good quality of life. Some were already early retired, some were never going to retire and others were on their way to ER. About half were already millionaires. And all complained that there were so few people out there that understood their choices.
__________________

__________________
Life is short and getting shorter.
If not now, when?
txdakini is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-01-2007, 04:04 PM   #22
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 242
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

You know, we don't tell anybody that we are ERd in our 40s... Imagine what questions people would have (or think)... are you a drug dealer? Won the lottery?

We met some new neighbors lately and they said, "we're not rich and, obviously, neither are you". And I thought "perfect!" I don't want anybody to think we are...

We drive a 5 year old car and always dress as though we are going to the gym.
__________________

__________________
Sparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-01-2007, 05:04 PM   #23
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 582
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

We don't usually bring up the topic of finances with people we know, but if it comes up among friends (not aquaintances) then we've been honest but cautious about discussing our FIRE plans.

We actually know several other couples who are LBYM types, at least to some extent, so perhaps we are fortunate in that regard. Not so much among DH's work colleagues, but my grad school friends all understand our choices and wouldn't be critical. My college roommate is actually planning to FIRE around age 35, so she's the person who is especially fun to talk with about it.

We can also talk openly with my family, and sort of with DH's. Extended family members don't know of our plans, but we don't socialize all that much with them anyway. I have several teachers in my family, most of whom retire after their 30 years are up, so RE isn't exactly a foreign idea.

I like the idea of a YMOYL group, that sounds fun.
__________________

WM is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 06:22 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Pardon me for asking, but why WOULDN'T you want to fly under the radar?

Nobody is happy about you being wealthy but you.

__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 08:59 AM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 162
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Regarding the number of millionaires, I would say there are 3 general categories:

1) inherited wealth
2) high earners/business owners (who are not necessarily big savers, but earning many hundreds of thousands per year will even make most big spenders a millionaire eventually)
3) LBYM types

I would say the vast majority of folks on this board are #3, but most of the millionaires in the country are #1 or #2, although I have nothing to back this statement up, just my perspective.

Until finding this board, I never came across anyone who was like me. I remember my first few days reading some of the posts and showing my wife and her saying something like "Wow, there are other people like us".

What I find lonely is not being able to talk about this to anyone else. Not so much talking about my wealth, but questions like:

when would be a good time to stop w*rking?
what does a man in his 50's, or even 40's, do all day if not w*rking?
how much will it really take if SS is a decade or 2 away?

Yes this board and Firecalc helps, but it seems a shame to have to shade the truth when a neighbor says we can't afford such and such and I nod my head and say I know what you mean. Not that I could suggest a LBYM lifestyle.
__________________
firewhen is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 09:04 AM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by txdakini
And all complained that there were so few people out there that understood their choices.
So maybe they should just get on with their own lives without obcessing about what others think and without judging others.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 09:13 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,720
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by firewhen
Regarding the number of millionaires, I would say there are 3 general categories:

1) inherited wealth
2) high earners/business owners (who are not necessarily big savers, but earning many hundreds of thousands per year will even make most big spenders a millionaire eventually)
3) LBYM types

I would say the vast majority of folks on this board are #3, but most of the millionaires in the country are #1 or #2...
I am in all three categories:
1) Inherited $300k in 2000
2) Made $200k/year as founder and CEO of a technology company (no stock returns)
3) Have always had nice trips, nice houses, and nice cars. But our cars are a 93 & 95. Since FIRE in 2002, we LBYM but we would not be FI if we had not sold our home and downsized to a rental penthouse.

But then I did not come to this board until FIRE so probably fall into category 3.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 11:00 AM   #28
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

I talk LBYM with anyone who will listen, and have told our friends and family about our FIRE plans. It is surprising that no one asks about the mechanics of this, no one can picture themselves in our situation. Odd, that. I don't know if the instant gratification pull is so strong, or if they figure that they've got bills, kids, expenses, what-have-you, that we don't have.
Sarah
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 11:43 AM   #29
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 23
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Around these parts $1MM is considered the (no pension) amount necessary to FIRE. According to the Wall Street Journal, that puts you in the top 8% of wealth in the country. So automatically at least 80% of people are just not going to relate to your situation. I would bet that most people who hang out here have had access to education and careers that the 92% of non-millionaires would never dream of having. Not to say that it can't be done, but it's certainly harder.

If you take the internet using percentage of that 8%, which will be small because most people will reach that number only when fairly old, and further reduce it to the non trust funded LBYM types, I wouldn't be surprised if this board doesn't capture just about everyone who's out there. Which I guess is the long way around to saying, yes it is a hidden existence because this existence or even the desire for this existence is so rare.
__________________
dylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 11:54 AM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 403
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
Nobody is happy about you being wealthy but you.
And your kids...
__________________
macdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 12:38 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
teejayevans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,221
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireup2025
I am proud of the fact that I am gonna FIRE no later than age 55 - and tracking very well for it. People are floored that I can live "so well" and so cheaply....spread the word on LBYM! Might not always fall on deaf ears
Don't do this, if everybody LBYM then world would going into a massive depression
SPEND, people, SPEND!!
Tom
__________________
teejayevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 01:03 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,198
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Being a curmudgeon, I wrote an email to the author of that NY Times article:

Code:
Hi,

I'm hoping you can help me resolve something that often bothers me. Frequently I see an article like your "Millionaire Families" piece, which says something like this: "The number of American households with a net worth of $1 million or more, excluding their principal residence, grew to a record 8.9 million last year."

What it says may be true, but without adjusting for population changes or inflation, it doesn't mean anything. You state that "The number of millionaire families rose to 7.1 million in 1999," but since the population increased from 273 million to 300 million in that period, and a million in 1999 was equivalent to 1.21 million in 2006, there may well be a decrease in the per capita households with the same spending power.

So, my question is: Do journalists realize that they should adjust the numbers, but don't do it because readers won't understand? Do they fail to adjust because it would make the story boring?

I'm not just criticizing -- I would like to understand this.

Thanks,

Al
Here is his reply:

Code:
I use inflation adjusted numbers unless they are not appropriate.
The data in my article were all adjusted for inflation.




Groupings (top one percent) remain the same in relative size to the whole.


In my next book, FREE LUNCH: Who Is Getting Rich Off Government, out in the fall, I go into some detail on per capita increases.






Allbests,


David Cay Johnston
Reporter
The New York Times
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 01:21 PM   #33
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

since I just recently found this forum, I would say hidden existence is an understatement. I've been happily reading old posts just becuase they suggest I'm not so odd after all! I've always been this way and I can relate to the difficulties of having dialogue with others that have such radically polar views on life and finances than my own.

If I could just chime in that I love my job, but still look forward to ER at 50 (ideally) but not later than at 55. I have a lot of interests and look forward to doing more of what I "want" as opposed to a life (however blessed and good) dedicated to doing what I "must", first.
__________________
jav is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-02-2007, 03:49 PM   #34
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 211
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

I've been odd ever since I was in utero, and I've had a much happier, prosperous, resilient life than I would have if I had ever succumbed to societal "norms" . Frankly at this point I practically consider it a badge of honor. I'll also chime in with Jav that I love my job, but I want DH and I to RE while we still have life left in our years. I'd rather spend my time with 3 good friends than trying to evangelize to crowds who will "never get it", at least from me.
__________________
OKLibrarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-03-2007, 06:49 AM   #35
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 93
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Check out the forum simpleliving.net

They discuss a wide variety of money topics dealing with less spending and early retirement. You will find people around the world living this simple frugal lifestyle. The forum is not a one size fits all but a place where many can share ideas. I love it.

Ana
__________________
sweetana3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-03-2007, 08:29 AM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
tryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,449
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

People are funny .... when I FIRE'd at 43 (after a layoff), at first, there was genuine concern from co-workers. Everyone was asking everyone "what are you gonna do". Then when people realized I was falling back on the real estate (i.e. I covered my @ss for this very scenario) it either:

1) Disbelief - you'll look for a job when the severence runs out.

Or

2) Jealosy - deer in the head light stares and weird comments.

A few couple people sought me out to pick my brain about RE questions. But they were about as rare as the FIRE'd on this board.
__________________
FIRE'd since 2005
tryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-03-2007, 10:47 AM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,720
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Going "Contra the herd" works in many aspects of life, especially investing. By definition, it tends to be a hidden existence because there is no personal benefit to proselytize and we are somewhat contrarian to begin with. 8)
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-03-2007, 11:15 AM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-03-2007, 09:06 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,951
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Amazes me that household size and location (location, location) are not considered in these stats. I live near DC.......a $1MM net worth including a "very modest" 300k home leaves 700k x .04= 28k income based on SWR.........is that rich?........anywhere?..........not even close!

Besides household size and location, the other disconnect is that folks with "y" net worth generally have "z" income (not correlated) and they WILL have the pension, SS or whatever to supplement. I love this board, but maybe I'm outta my element here as I dont anticipate being eligible to FIRE.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?
Old 04-04-2007, 12:03 AM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: Is ours a hidden existence?

Most of the people I work with wouldn't know a 401(k) if it hit them in the head. I asked one of the guys what he thought of the one at the company. He got a blank look and asked what a 401 was.

I also recently put in my resignation. I decided the small amount of money I was making was not worth the disruption to my life. Most of my co-workers have asked where I'm going. I get very odd looks when I tell them I don't need the job. What I don't tell them is I'll need a job within a year but not that job, now.
__________________

__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roth IRA's and the hidden federal tax Ravensthorpe FIRE and Money 16 03-13-2007 10:21 AM
The Hidden Epidemic on PBS cube_rat Health and Early Retirement 0 02-15-2007 02:46 PM
The Hidden Cost of War Mountain_Mike Other topics 4 06-20-2005 08:16 PM
Hidden costs of stock fund commissions/spreads? ESRBob FIRE and Money 6 04-19-2004 06:43 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.